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07-31-2009, 10:14 AM | #1 |
Golden Grenadier
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Western New York
Posts: 16,594
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Ok, this may come off as a rant but it's really not. And I am fully expecting retaliation from one or two choice members...but I care not.
Here is the breakdown. Bring back the 80's! TMNT, Star Wars, Transformers, GI Joe, Indiana Jones, Secret of NIMH, ALIEN, Incredible Hulk...just to name a few (Ok Alien was 79 but close enough and Hulk is too)... Lets see who stayed true to their roots: TMNT - Although the movie was CGI it was in true turtle form and it may not have done really well in the theater it did have a toy line that was successful. Lets see who successfully pleased fans when they deviated from their roots: Star Wars - GL was a genius, he sparked interest in a second generation of Fans and then found yet a third. His Empire is unchallenged, even though I dont really like the Current Clone Wars series. Then we have all the rest: GI Joe - Although I have seen some interesting clips from the movie I still feel that there is significant deviation from what got me into GI Joe in the first place. We still have yet to see if it's viable. Transformers - Drastic deviation from the original series. Time and time again TF has been re-envisioned and for what? Beastwars: Fail, RID: Fail, Armada: Fail, TFAnimated: Epic Fail...then they made the movies and IMO: FAIL. They look like bugs not robots in disguise. They fall on things and use classic looser talk like "my bad" and then they brought in a character that had NO relevance to TF at all and then focus on him, his girlfriend and college and his mom and dad....bleeck! FAIL Indiana Jones - Need I say more, Aliens and Nucular Tests (hehe) c'mon. This seems like GL could have had a little more hands on like in SW and it would have not been so absurd. Oh wait, and then their was that Kid from Transformers that blew it for me too. The Toyline...I had so looked forward to collecting updated figures from the 80's but they clogged the shelves and sold like crap. Then clearances and then gone. FAIL Incredible Hulk - Honestly, do they do any market research and see if there is any real interest in a giant inflatable green man? Maybe in my home...but in the market? ::: FAIL Then there is what is to come: Alien Prequel, done by the original director: IMO that will be awesome. Secret of NIMH, Live action and CGI....maybe, as long as they keep the Brisby name and not the Frisby name. So to close, we have seen that Hollywood and Hasbro and other agencies of doom have tapped the 1980's to entertain us...so my question is why do they think it's acceptable to DEVIATE from the source material when it spells FAIL in most 80's re-envisioning??? Cue, Hi Post count blasters... |
07-31-2009, 10:18 AM | #2 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Northeastern, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,998
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TMNT live action FOR ADULTS, finally, is being written by John Fusco, the same guy who wrote the Young Guns movies, as we speak.
So, that's a plus in my book and should pep you up a bit because they're trying to give it the adult themed treatment it needs. |
07-31-2009, 10:23 AM | #3 |
Crimson Nerd
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,578
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There's a very simple rebuttal:
Failing "in your opinion" doesn't equal failure at making billions of dollars, as was/is the case with Transformers and its' various incarnations. In the long run, the almighty dollar holds a hell of a lot more weight with Hasbro, Paramount, and every other business in the world than message board fanboy complaints ever will. Even the last Indiana Jones movie pulled in huge amounts of money worldwide. Transformers, by any stretch of the imagination, is a raging financial success. That's what matters most to Hasbro, and what should matter most to Hasbro, seeing as how they're a for-profit business. Aside from Star Wars, no other toy line (thus far) has succeeded nearly as much at capturing multiple generations of fans. People vote with their dollars. If enough people are voting "yes" that it's putting Hasbro well into the black, then quite frankly the complaints are irrelevant. The naysayers aren't enough to affect the bottom line. If you lose 2 buyers because of the changes, but gain 20 new ones, you're coming out way ahead in the long run. The fact that your seemingly number one example of a "changed" franchise "failing" is one of the most financially successful ruins your argument before it begins. Last edited by Jmacq1; 07-31-2009 at 10:30 AM.. |
07-31-2009, 10:28 AM | #4 |
Golden Grenadier
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Western New York
Posts: 16,594
|
Quote:
There's a very simple rebuttal:
Failing "in your opinion" doesn't equal failure at making billions of dollars, as was/is the case with Transformers and its' various incarnations. In the long run, the almighty dollar holds a hell of a lot more weight with Hasbro, Paramount, and every other business in the world than message board fanboy complaints ever will. Transformers, by any stretch of the imagination, is a raging financial success. That's what matters most to Hasbro, and what should matter most to Hasbro, seeing as how they're a for-profit business. People vote with their dollars. If enough people are voting "yes" that it's putting Hasbro well into the black, then quite frankly the complaints are irrelevant. The naysayers aren't enough to affect the bottom line. If you lose 2 buyers because of the changes, but gain 20 new ones, you're coming out way ahead in the long run. Now as far as the movie goes, I didnt like the first one and I was fooled into thinking I would so when the second came out I was not spending a dime to see it. Although I am sure it made lots of money it's opening week, the revenue dropped drastically because there was not enough repeat biz. I saw Star Wars 5-8 times in the theater...how many people can you say saw TF2 more than once? And I do vote with my dollars. TF2 got no love from me...and I was not alone. Last edited by speedocub; 07-31-2009 at 10:32 AM.. |
07-31-2009, 10:31 AM | #5 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
|
I'm probably one of the "choice" and "hi post count blasters" but whatever.
Entitled to your opinion. Sometimes change is good, sometimes it's not. Movies have been changing and updating the "source" material for years. The Bourne movies come to mind. James Bond is a pretty big deviation from the source material, the Daniel Craig Bond is the closest to the books. Indy has always been a reflection of the time/settings it's been in. Nazis were always the main enemy because of the time frame, World War 2. So why shouldn't a movie that takes place after WW2 do what the others have done, reflect some of the stuff going on at that time (red scare, nuclear testing and Roswell)? TMNT, the 80s cartoon, was probably the biggest deviation from the source material of all time. The original comics were not comedic at all, ever. I think Eastman and Laird probably threw up the first time they heard Michealangelo yell "kowabunga!!", but then they cleaned up the mess with the piles and piles of cash they had. Secret of Nimh deviated from the source material. The original family name was Frisby, not Brisby, that was done for the movie. Fail is an opinion. For every person that says the new T-Formers are "fail", you can probably find one or two that will say they are "win". Personally, I viewed the cartoon TMNT as a huge fail, because it ruined a great book for me. Here's the funny thing, for the majority of people, they can like both and be happy. I love my original Transformers and the original cartoon and comic. I love the first Transformers movie. Haven't watched the new one yet. I plan on watching the original cartoon movie this weekend, one of my favorite movies of all time. I like all 4 Indy Jones movies. Incredible Hulk.. Marvel and Hollywood aren't stupid. They don't go into something looking to make a movie that will "fail". So yes, obviously they do their market research. The demand (who that demand is, I don't know) is there or else it wouldn't get greenlighted. No one goes "Yeah, let's make a new Hulk movie because no one wants to see it". But again it all comes down to opinion. You don't like some of them, that's fine. Not right, wrong, up, down or even sideways. It just is an opinion. But it is just your opinion that deviating from the source material means fail. I don't think anyone can call Transformers a fail. How much money has that brand made? How much more high profile is the brand? Oh yeah, even Lucas deviated when he created the prequels. Midi-chlorians anyone?
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07-31-2009, 10:33 AM | #6 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Northeastern, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,998
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Jmacq1 is right.
Marketing is for the bottom dollar, and that's that. The most uncreative people in the world produce this stuff, with creative people merely lining the edges. Most studio reps and toy company magnates are business men and women with zero creativity, from business backgrounds, with specialized business degrees. They just merely manage funds and say yes or no to appropriation of the dollars that's the job. The creative souls fall to the wayside. If movie studios, and toy companies could package and sell the products & movies with the least amount of creative effort they would- because for them, it makes the bottom line and the dollar earned even sweeter when the effort put in is less than the dollar earned. |
07-31-2009, 10:34 AM | #7 |
Metalhead Extreme
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Posts: 2,051
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hey Beast Wars kicked ass and so did TF Animated!! the same writers did FANTASTIC stories for both shows an they were both extremely successful with numerous G1 references and the last part of season 2 going into season 3 of Beast Wars showed why Megatron stole the Golden Disc.
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07-31-2009, 10:35 AM | #8 |
Golden Grenadier
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Western New York
Posts: 16,594
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Quote:
Hmmmmm, Adult Theme you say...what exactly is an adult theme? We are not going to see the Teenage Mutant Girl Turtles are we? If they focus on a love interest type thing that could be really bad...but if they keep it to the Action Adventure Category with no distracting mushy stuff...I can see something good happening there. |
07-31-2009, 10:37 AM | #9 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
Quote:
Now hang on a sec...Making Millions of dollars is all fine and dandy but it's short lived, if they had continued to maintain the quality in the toyline from the 80's they would have made billions of dollars. Settling for millions and having no choice but to re-envision your line every 3-4 years is still a FAIL in my book.
With toys, each generation of kids wants their own versions. They don't want to be playing with daddy's or older brothers or older cousins toys. Why wouldn't they want their own. That they had to re-envision means that the original line died out and failed, or else there never would have been a re-envisioning. I'm sure Hasbro doesn't like having to come up with new versions every couple of years, no one would, it's a pain in the ass, but it's not their choice. The market demands it. Eventually, no matter how good a version it is, the people that like it will move on and the new fans that join may leave or dwindle out and the version may not attract the newer generation. So it forces Hasbro to re-envision. The market forces it. Even comic books, Superman and Batman, they've been around for years, but every couple of years they go thru major changes. It's the nature of long term brands. They have to change with the times or else they get stagnant and die out.
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07-31-2009, 10:37 AM | #10 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Northeastern, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,998
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Re-envisioning the lines every 3-4 years does make them billions of dollars because it keeps the demographic turned around consistently and taps new generations.
When you start to feel like this about movies and toys, it's because you've aged yourself out of the game and you're longing for a better time that you liked when you were younger. Basically, you're too old for it now. Kids, the market this is all aimed at, don't think this way. You just have to keep collecting what you like and seeing what you like and dealing with the way of the business. |
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