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12-12-2008, 11:44 PM | #111 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Castle, Delaware
Posts: 4,498
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Quote:
Poor baby's cry. I say NO, I repeat NO. Those shiesty car company's worked hand in hand with oil company's for years to extort our citizens.
How you say? They (oil co.'s) paid them (car co.'s) millions over the years to keep their product running on 1) gasoline, and 2) about 20 mpg. We could have been done with this depedency on foreign oil many years ago....many! I say let them fail. W should have never gave that bailout to those banks and let them fail We need to start over, and people (crooks) need to learn a lesson. Congratulation. Your plan leads to a new Great Depression. How? Thousands...many thousands...of unemployed, displaced, and newly homeless. Higher crime rates. Inflation. Etc etc etc. I DO wish the bailout came with more strings attached. After all, when the companies (see how I made that plural without mistakenly using the possessive apostrophe s? Could some more people here try that? I try not to be the Grammar Police...I do that for a living...so I really try. But honestly, give it a shot sometime. Proper grammar won't hurt. It might even feel good) are at their point of most dire need (begging for money) they are most likely to expect some good, old fashioned trust busting monopoly-destroying Teddy Roosevelt style reform (Bully!) but even so, these things probably need to happen in some manner. And again, folks...bailouts happen constantly. If you've ever ridden Amtrak, you've supported an industry that wouldn't exist without government assistance. Heck, the government even provides subsidies to farmers...explain how, on principle, that's any different? It isn't; it is still the government interfering with the free market and setting up price controls and so on. Stop getting your knickers in a twist and screaming "OMFG SOCIALISM OH NOES!!!" Socialism, or socialist ideas, or socialist reforms are not new to this country. I refer you to the New Deal, and FDR...widely considered one of the handful of greatest presidents of all time, and architect of the most socialist package of legislation the country has ever seen. It is not new.
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12-13-2008, 12:20 AM | #112 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI.
Posts: 24
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I work for a machinery supplier in Michigan. The fact is more than half of my customers make parts like everything from nuts and bolts to the headlights and seats for the big three. I know a lot of people that do not work for the big three but they will be in trouble if the companies go under. If the big three pays back the money I see no problem with giving it to them. There are thousands of companies all over this country that employ 50-100 people supplying the big three with everything from manufactured parts to paper and pencils. For every one person that loses their job at GM or Chrysler, there will be three people losing there jobs at dealerships, parts suppliers, and the local retail shops in the communities around these places. I agree that things need to change. The unions could do their part to help. Either way, this country will be a lot worse off without them. I can see why many people are against spending tax payer money to help corporations. However, I think part of the governments job is to ensure the well being of the people. If they can help, why not? The CEO's and union bosses are already rich. This will only hurt middle class families that already have a tough enough time as it is right now.
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12-13-2008, 12:35 AM | #113 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 762
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Quote:
I agree fully with you and Tanksmasher as well as several that wrote before in favor of bailing them out. The thought of over a million people losing their jobs from GM alone should put chills in everyones spine. Those opposed have to realize that if laid off those workers would then be forced in a lot of cases to file for unemployment which guess who gets to pay for as well. There are so many jobs tied into the auto industry it is not even funny to think of letting them go under. I do not support the Fat Cats, but the every day hard working blue collar and even white collars.
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Devil King |
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12-13-2008, 12:38 AM | #114 |
JOES BEFORE HOES
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Westland, MI
Posts: 5,939
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Quote:
MOST goes to Asia, not some...they don't pay taxes either...nore do they pay for the land they are on...and aside from the actual factories, they don't support many other American jobs like engineers, designers, suppliers and what not like the Big 3...
true fact...Ford alone supports more american jobs than all the forigne manufactures combined... |
12-13-2008, 12:44 AM | #115 |
U and ur friends r dead.
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 956
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Quote:
The Unions will have to make concessions and in my opinion they Board needs new CEO's I do not think personally the politicians who have no idea how to build a better car will do better. When Companies go nationalized it worries me. The Government SHOULD NOT have that much control period. Caution must be taken when traveling down this slippery slope that we are on. I personally think they need to look what the car companies that are located in the south are doing. Great contracts from unions are great so long as the company doesnt go out of business in the mean time trying to pay them out.
"Having been there, I do not agree with the sentiment now coming out of Congress that the management should be changed as a condition of granting loans to the Detroit automakers," Iacocca said. "You don't change coaches in the middle of a game, especially when things are so volatile." He added that the auto industry has been hit by an unpredictable series of events beyond its control. "The companies may not be perfect, but the guys who are running them now are the only ones with the experience and the in-depth knowledge and understanding of how the car business really works," he said. Lee Iacocca on bailout: Don't force Big 3 CEOs out -- Newsday.com We still need unions, whether you want to believe it or not. They protect us from poor management. As I stated in another post, many non-union auto factories make more per hour including beneifts. Unless you've worked in a union shop, with a good strong union, then you really don't have a clear perspective on what a union actually does. I've been a union officer in an auto parts factory. I know that no union is perfect. There is corruption in some upper parts of some unions. But, a union is only as strong as it's members. If it's members are strong and do good work and support each other, then both sides, management and workers win. The problem is, is that there are always someone in the whole process, be it company or union that will take for themselves. Way too many people are blaming the workers. The workers are not at fault when a CEO makes millions in bonuses and salary. Don't forget. The Big 3 automakers are publicly held companies. This means that it also affects shareholders AND Wall Street. If the auto manufacturers fail, no amount of bank bailout will help the economy. What it really comes down to is which politicians are working for us and which are working for foreign investors that actually are receiving the bailout monies. Let me tell you, no matter the party affiliation, the color of their skin, or their gender, they are all working for companies, investors, and lobbyists.
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Feedback: http://www.hisstank.com/forum/buy-se...ostateguy.html Buy/Sell/Trade thread: http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...tml#post734194 Last edited by theohiostateguy; 12-13-2008 at 12:46 AM.. |
12-13-2008, 12:47 AM | #116 |
WEAPONS DEALER
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: A real ISland OFF the COAST of MAINE
Posts: 165
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As soon as FDR stopped doling out the cash (in 1937, after the election) the economy crashed again. The stock market plummeted. Five years into the New Deal, in the winter of 1937-1938, two in 10 were again unemployed. The Welfare state program begins.
http://iws.ccccd.edu/kwilkison/Onlin...onNewDeal.html
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http://www.hisstank.com/forum/buy-se...tml#post444964 Last edited by thefan; 12-13-2008 at 12:50 AM.. |
12-13-2008, 12:59 AM | #117 |
JOES BEFORE HOES
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Westland, MI
Posts: 5,939
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Quote:
That's all well and good in words and theory, but the truth of the matter comes from the man that turned Chrysler around decades ago......Lee Iacocca.
"Having been there, I do not agree with the sentiment now coming out of Congress that the management should be changed as a condition of granting loans to the Detroit automakers," Iacocca said. "You don't change coaches in the middle of a game, especially when things are so volatile." He added that the auto industry has been hit by an unpredictable series of events beyond its control. "The companies may not be perfect, but the guys who are running them now are the only ones with the experience and the in-depth knowledge and understanding of how the car business really works," he said. Lee Iacocca on bailout: Don't force Big 3 CEOs out -- Newsday.com We still need unions, whether you want to believe it or not. They protect us from poor management. As I stated in another post, many non-union auto factories make more per hour including beneifts. Unless you've worked in a union shop, with a good strong union, then you really don't have a clear perspective on what a union actually does. I've been a union officer in an auto parts factory. I know that no union is perfect. There is corruption in some upper parts of some unions. But, a union is only as strong as it's members. If it's members are strong and do good work and support each other, then both sides, management and workers win. The problem is, is that there are always someone in the whole process, be it company or union that will take for themselves. Way too many people are blaming the workers. The workers are not at fault when a CEO makes millions in bonuses and salary. Don't forget. The Big 3 automakers are publicly held companies. This means that it also affects shareholders AND Wall Street. If the auto manufacturers fail, no amount of bank bailout will help the economy. What it really comes down to is which politicians are working for us and which are working for foreign investors that actually are receiving the bailout monies. Let me tell you, no matter the party affiliation, the color of their skin, or their gender, they are all working for companies, investors, and lobbyists. |
12-13-2008, 01:03 AM | #118 |
supreme allied commander
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 366
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Quote:
That's all well and good in words and theory, but the truth of the matter comes from the man that turned Chrysler around decades ago......Lee Iacocca.
"Having been there, I do not agree with the sentiment now coming out of Congress that the management should be changed as a condition of granting loans to the Detroit automakers," Iacocca said. "You don't change coaches in the middle of a game, especially when things are so volatile." He added that the auto industry has been hit by an unpredictable series of events beyond its control. "The companies may not be perfect, but the guys who are running them now are the only ones with the experience and the in-depth knowledge and understanding of how the car business really works," he said. Lee Iacocca on bailout: Don't force Big 3 CEOs out -- Newsday.com We still need unions, whether you want to believe it or not. They protect us from poor management. As I stated in another post, many non-union auto factories make more per hour including beneifts. Unless you've worked in a union shop, with a good strong union, then you really don't have a clear perspective on what a union actually does. I've been a union officer in an auto parts factory. I know that no union is perfect. There is corruption in some upper parts of some unions. But, a union is only as strong as it's members. If it's members are strong and do good work and support each other, then both sides, management and workers win. The problem is, is that there are always someone in the whole process, be it company or union that will take for themselves. Way too many people are blaming the workers. The workers are not at fault when a CEO makes millions in bonuses and salary. Don't forget. The Big 3 automakers are publicly held companies. This means that it also affects shareholders AND Wall Street. If the auto manufacturers fail, no amount of bank bailout will help the economy. What it really comes down to is which politicians are working for us and which are working for foreign investors that actually are receiving the bailout monies. Let me tell you, no matter the party affiliation, the color of their skin, or their gender, they are all working for companies, investors, and lobbyists. |
12-13-2008, 01:12 AM | #119 |
Lightning IG
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Hutto, Texas
Posts: 9,773
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I will back both of these members and if you want to find out more I suggest you look it up!! These two know what they are talking about! We are talking about regular people being out of jobs if you let these 3 go down! I am not trying to say that we can't go in a new different direction and try to look for a new energy source. We certainly need to rid ourselves of our oil addiction, and move to a new renewable source of energy! I hope that people don't continue to blame the unions for this mess, which is unfair!!
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12-13-2008, 01:14 AM | #120 |
Lexi Belle fan
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 4,210
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why does this thread sound like the company that i know? .....ummm Hasbro?
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