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View Poll Results: Has your opinion of the MAULER changed after reading aobut the real one? | |||
Yes, Favorable | 84 | 57.53% | |
No | 37 | 25.34% | |
Yes, Unfavorable | 2 | 1.37% | |
Don't care. | 23 | 15.75% | |
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll |
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03-15-2009, 06:44 PM | #51 |
Good times abound.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Scott AFB, IL.
Posts: 1,339
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Quote:
I know that tactics have to be adapted, and equipment improved or replaced, but so far we're still leading in those areas...
The Nazis GREATLY underestimated Russias capacity to build overwhelming numbers of tanks by moving their factories back from the front lines. They also foolishly commited to war on two fronts, without securing their flanks. On the other hand Russia was also willing to pay ANY price in casualties to achieve victory. There is no official record of their losses, but the estimates run into the millions! There is also little doubt that Russia would have pulled out of Afghanistan without the CIA providing Heat seeking missle to the Muja Hadin. Untill that point, Russian attack helicopters were laying waste to the opposition. Germany struck fast and furiously in the hopes of hitting the government power centers and severing the head. In communism, if you kill the dictator and his cronies, communism generally falls. As Germany crossed into Russia they would seize the tanks that were loaded onto trains headed for Germany, turning Russia's own arms against them. It is estimated right now that Russia lost 25 million soldiers during the course of world war II. It is not because they are willing to take the loss, it is because it was an imperative to perserving their way of life. They didn't gun down their own people because they are "savages" they needed to keep pressure on the germans. Not that gunning your people down is right, but it does provide a fierce determination to go forward. These type of tactics are what saved Russia from total invasion. This victory invigorated them and allowed them to move forward and destroy berlin over time. Although Americans were important to the war effort, we really did nothing against Germany except provide a distraction and salvage what was left of britain. If Germany had managed to break through and destroy Stalingrad, Russia would have been lost and Germany could have turned most of it's attention towards the western front and effectively crushed all resistance.
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03-15-2009, 09:11 PM | #52 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Albany NY
Posts: 1,440
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Quote:
Germany knew what it was doing when they invaded Russia. It wasn't so much an error as a timed response. They signed the treaty with Russia for the explicit purpose of throwing them off their scent. Part of the treaty with Russia was an exchange of arms as well. Russia was sending Germany parts, weapons, and tanks in exchange for staying out of the war. Stalin estimated that they would be at war with Germany around 1945-1950 and planned accordingly.
Germany struck fast and furiously in the hopes of hitting the government power centers and severing the head. In communism, if you kill the dictator and his cronies, communism generally falls. As Germany crossed into Russia they would seize the tanks that were loaded onto trains headed for Germany, turning Russia's own arms against them. It is estimated right now that Russia lost 25 million soldiers during the course of world war II. It is not because they are willing to take the loss, it is because it was an imperative to perserving their way of life. They didn't gun down their own people because they are "savages" they needed to keep pressure on the germans. Not that gunning your people down is right, but it does provide a fierce determination to go forward. These type of tactics are what saved Russia from total invasion. This victory invigorated them and allowed them to move forward and destroy berlin over time. Although Americans were important to the war effort, we really did nothing against Germany except provide a distraction and salvage what was left of britain. If Germany had managed to break through and destroy Stalingrad, Russia would have been lost and Germany could have turned most of it's attention towards the western front and effectively crushed all resistance. 1. Germany's tanks got bogged down in the mudd costing them precious time on the way to Moscow. When winter hit they were finished, caught without winter uniforms and outnumbered by millions of Russian reinforcements. 2. by 1944 Germany lost the war in the Atlantic, even if they took Russia they could never have dealt with the overwhelming number of allied tanks, troops and supplies pouring in from the US. German tank quality was cancelled by our Army air corps and insuficient numbers. 3. The most experienced German Luftwaffe pilots were being killed in the sky by P-51 Mustangs without being able to pass on their experince to the new recuits. Even with their new jets they were swiftly losing air cover sealing the fate of their ground troops. 4. With Allied Air Superiority, it didn't matter how good German armor was, they fell to P-40 Warhawks like so much scrap metal. For all of the Tiger tank's "Legend" their were never more than 500 serving in the field. Combined the US and Russia had nearly 100,000 tanks and tank destroyers. Combined The Germans never feilded more than 5,000 tanks of all types. We beat the Germans in the factories Detroit USA. The Germans new they were defeated when they failed to stop us at the beach. Even Romel their best General admitted that! 5. Russia needed the Allies pounding Gremany in the air and Italy to buy time for his armies to rebuild. Russia's best Generals were killed in purges, not on the battlefiled. Stalin threatened to sue for peace multiple times if the Allies didn't invade soon! American High Command left the prize of Berlin to Russia, to keep our casualties low, not because we couldn't take it. General Omar Bradley, Patton, and British Generals were all up to the task of taking Berlin, they simply were not allowed to. 6. The French underground held massive numbers of German soldiers back to guard occupied territories, instead of fighting on the frontlines. They played no small part in bogging down German efforts. 7. Even if the Germans managed to strech the war out another year, We would have had the Atomic bomb well before they could do anything to match it. German plans to build a nuclear weapon were destroyed by 1944.
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PLease! I need your help to find; LOOSE: 1. Comic Pack October Guard Figures. 2. 1987 Cobra Maggot 3. Cobra Adder 4. Cobra Imp 5. Cobra Bunker parts or complete 6. Cobra Rifle Range parts or complete 7. Loose Pit Commandos, complete or not 8. Loose 25th greenshirts, complete or not Last edited by IronMan76; 03-15-2009 at 11:02 PM.. |
03-16-2009, 01:07 AM | #53 |
Good times abound.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Scott AFB, IL.
Posts: 1,339
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Quote:
There are more holes in that argument than I can count.
1. Germany's tanks got bogged down in the mud costing them precious time on the way to Moscow. When winter hit they were finished, caught without winter uniforms and outnumbered by millions of Russian reinforcements. 2. by 1944 Germany lost the war in the Atlantic, even if they took Russia they could never have dealt with the overwhelming number of allied tanks, troops and supplies pouring in from the US. German tank quality was canceled by our Army air corps and insufficient numbers. 3. The most experienced German Luftwaffe pilots were being killed in the sky by P-51 Mustangs without being able to pass on their experience to the new recruits. Even with their new jets they were swiftly losing air cover sealing the fate of their ground troops. 4. With Allied Air Superiority, it didn't matter how good German armor was, they fell to P-40 Warhawks like so much scrap metal. For all of the Tiger tank's "Legend" their were never more than 500 serving in the field. Combined the US and Russia had nearly 100,000 tanks and tank destroyers. Combined The Germans never feilded more than 5,000 tanks of all types. We beat the Germans in the factories Detroit USA. The Germans new they were defeated when they failed to stop us at the beach. Even Romel their best General admitted that! 5. Russia needed the Allies pounding Germany in the air and Italy to buy time for his armies to rebuild. Russia's best Generals were killed in purges, not on the battlefiled. Stalin threatened to sue for peace multiple times if the Allies didn't invade soon! American High Command left the prize of Berlin to Russia, to keep our casualties low, not because we couldn't take it. General Omar Bradley, Patton, and British Generals were all up to the task of taking Berlin, they simply were not allowed to. 6. The French underground held massive numbers of German soldiers back to guard occupied territories, instead of fighting on the front lines. They played no small part in bogging down German efforts. 7. Even if the Germans managed to stretch the war out another year, We would have had the Atomic bomb well before they could do anything to match it. German plans to build a nuclear weapon were destroyed by 1944. I'm just referring back to your points in no particular order, but be assured we are essentially saying the same thing. Germany was run out of Russia long before most of what you outline above has even occurred. Germany was already losing in Russia just as America even entered the war. So with Russia out of the picture it is debated that Germany could have moved the bulk of its forces elsewhere, but policing Russia after wards in that scenario is debated. The German forces were stretched very thin after the massive losses within Russia, and once Russia began an offensive the German losses increased exponentially on both fronts with the entry of the United States into the fray. Needless to say as both sides retreated scorched earth warfare was employed, which made things difficult for either force when coming or going throughout the campaign. It can be argued that Hitler's greatest mistake was not putting more faith in air power. Hitler still believed very much in ground strength, and the Americans and British were able to exploit that greatly. Poor fighter designs and a general lack of any real direction and leadership in the Luftwaffe basically made its resistance to American air power downright silly. Germany had many ace pilots and they were battle hardened, having flown and practiced numerous tactics during the Spanish civil war before World War II broke out. Their effectiveness in combat despite the odds being against them speaks to that. The Luftwaffe perfected the tactics that made them so effective in the war during this time. The same with German army. The German idea of Blitzkrieg warfare was born in the Spanish civil war, so was combat air support for infantry troops. Americans were largely green horns in all aspects of war; five to ten years before we were using cardboard standees to train our troops in anticipation of entering the war because we had so little equipment. A lot of our tactics used after World War II were direct adoptions of Germany military strategies. Some of which we still use today form the backbone of military strategy on a modern combat field. When Jets were introduced they were merely an indulgence. They were new and fast, but the Luftwaffe had all but been eliminated at that point, and the allies had established air dominance over Germany. They were quite effective, but they could never field many and the engines in them lasted roughly twelve hours, so maintenance was quite expensive. Fuel was scare as well. They simply weren't practical at this stage of the war. Effective, but not numerous enough to matter. When you mention how many tanks were fielded look at how few it took to cause so much destruction on Germany's behalf. You have to remember also that no aggressor nation to the United States has ever been able to bring a war to us. The United States and Russia were both in an unhindered position to continue to deliver fresh troops, supplies, and equipment to the front lines in 1944. Germany didn't have this luxury, but they put up one hell of a fight with the limited number of resources they had around. Seven million Germans dead vs twenty-five million soviets, four hundred thousand Americans, and four hundred and fifty thousand British speaks a lot about the capabilities and the horrors of the German military. Once the war began to wrap up, the United States was well aware that our next great villain would become Russia. It was not a matter of allowing the Russians to swoop in and claim Berlin. It was quite the opposite. At the end it became a race to see who would claim it first. Every nation on the east side of Berlin became communist protectorates, and that was something the United States and Britain wanted to prevent from happening desperately. These same types of decisions motivated virtually every move during the final months of the pacific war as well. It became a race to beat Russia to mainland Japan so that communism would not spread any further. But these things are still highly debated. As is all of this, obviously.
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Last edited by paulpratt; 03-16-2009 at 01:13 AM.. |
03-16-2009, 08:04 AM | #54 |
yeah......
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,292
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Russia; building China the finest quality jets for over ten years!
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03-16-2009, 09:49 AM | #55 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 2,691
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thunderdan19 |
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03-16-2009, 10:32 AM | #56 |
In the crosshairs
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: KS
Posts: 819
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England was 3wks away from surrender due to starvation when Hitler gave up and opened up the Russian front. Thank god for his impatience. If he would have conquered England first, we would have not had a foothold to retake Europe.
The Me-262 ran on diesel fuel and was not subject to the shortages according to 21st Century's description. That really surprised me. Also, Hitler kept changing his mind on the 262's mission, wanting a bomber instead of a fighter which delayed it by over a year. I the luftwaffe generals had gotten their jet fighter/interceptor a year earlier, things could have been very different. Hitler's scientists were close to the bomb, but Hitler did not see the importance of it and never expanded the project. The Panther was the ultimate tank and all modern designs are based on it's philosophy, but Hitler was obsessed with the Tiger. It seems odd to me that the US won the war using Russia's method of mass producing cheap tanks and overwhelming the Germans, yet now use the German model of expensive weapons that require lots of maintenance and cannot be fielded in great numbers. Obviously this works for 3rd world countries, but Russia or China might flood us. You can only kill as many tanks as you have ammo for. |
03-16-2009, 10:35 AM | #57 |
yeah......
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,292
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more filling with less after taste!
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03-16-2009, 10:40 AM | #58 |
Paranoid Schizophrenic
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,515
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The GI JOE vehicles were realistic. The Cobra vehicles were not so much (wish exceptions of course). However, would you go into battle in a hiss tank sitting up high with a glass canopy protecting you from the enemy? How about going into battle in a Cobra Stun sitting on that throne in the back? Not even would I want to go into battle in a WORMS vehicle.
I'll take the Mauler any day.
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03-16-2009, 12:06 PM | #59 |
In the crosshairs
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: KS
Posts: 819
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Arch2b,
My history must be fuzzy. When exactly have we had our asses handed to us? I can't think of a single conflict since WWI where our military was defeated when allowed to fight without handcuffs. I guess if you count congress and the public an enemy, your statement is correct. When allowed to fight with all of it's weapon systems as a cohesive force, the way it was designed, nobody has challenged us since Korea. Even when handcuffed by congress, our military still kills many more than it loses. That's usually the time the public steps in and starts crying. |
03-16-2009, 12:24 PM | #60 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 4,555
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we were effectively beaten back repeatedly by low tech means in veitnam, we continue to incurr losses due to ied's and other low tech means in both iraq and afganistan. we could have won the prior if left to do the job right without the political hamstrings and we are far from lost in the latter however it's been proven that you do not need the latest and greatest to inflict severe damage on a superior force. enough so that the political and social support dissolves. who then is declared the winner or looser? we have less losses however we end up leaving unresolved conclusions. there was no win in veitnam, no clear win in iraq and it's headed the same way in afganistan.
we won our independence with the development and use of non conventional warfare. somewhere along the line we seemed to have lost that initiative in favor of grander conventional forces which end up bogged down in drawn out conflicts. i'm by no means a history major or even military dictionary as some of you others appear to be but i watch plenty history/military channel shows that all seem to parallel my thoughts so i know i'm not the only one thinking along these lines.
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