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09-09-2017, 09:33 AM | #31 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 950
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Quote:
I bought a couple of them because they were just 'cool toys'. But they weren't GI Joes. Sorry, man. Just another garbage cash-in on the name.
Dark Ninja Master was pretty awesome as far as toys go. I do want a lot of those things made in proper Joe scale. Sorry, I think I know quite a bit. And I've been around a bit longer than you, if you didn't notice. You'd think I've learned a thing or two. If this is what you consider 'expanding', then let's be honest- "Make an entirely different scale, style, and lore for the figures. Slap GI Joe name on them. Just like the GI Joe! Oh, you want smaller ones? Have MORE in a completely incompatible scale! And they're not poseable!" No, man. No, we were all just desperate for ANYTHING GI Joe after Valor vs. Venom and Spy Troops half-assed the GI Joe line with remakes and a few actual decent figures. The same way GI Joe EXTREME did. It was a complete deviation, did not bring anything particularly 'new' that we hadn't seen with both the 12" or 3.75" figures. Not compatable with either one, it was a desperate attempt to 'reinvent' the line with overpriced figures and when they finally made vehicles- they were useless with anything else. Sorry, I am a Joe collector. I kind of like the fact that a lot of my things work closely together. Sigma Six was as stupid as GI Joe EXTREME. So, if you see 'making a stupid scale that isn't compatable with anything we've made previously, and then realizing it was an idiotic mistake' to be 'in line with the GI Joe line', then yes. Hasbro didn't learn from their mistake. Nothing you wrote actually supports your argument against Sigma 6 because every one of those things applies to RAH as well. So you'd have to oppose RAH as well which you hypocritically do not. But you've been "here" longer. Another logical fallacy on your part -- appeal to non-authority, as if that someone disqualifies my authority on the matter. Sorry, you wasted a lot of time to simply confirm you have no idea about the Joe brand. |
09-09-2017, 10:56 AM | #32 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 562
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I think the heavy focus on figures and their hyper-articulation is what did in the line. When ARAH was introduced, figure articulation (and detail) wasn't any better than the cheap alternatives being offered now by Hasbro's competitors. The line emphasized the vehicles and playsets and a wide variety of them. This is what attracted the kids of day.
The highly detailed and articulated figures are great for collectors, but make little or no difference to kids - but the price difference affects the purchasing decisions of his parents. No one under 10 years old will even notice the difference between singe or double articulated knees, articulated ankles, etc. As Hasbro moved away from vehicles and play sets and more towards focusing on the figures, their market share began to shrink as well. A cartoon appeared later, but a Marvel comic was the only "entertainment medium" support that GI Joe had at the time - and it was enough. Vehicle concepts became more and more quirky and dumb with the now boring spring-loaded missile launcher as the only feature worth noting left newer generations of children yawning. Had Hasbro introduced cool and exciting designs earlier (the new VAMP and HiSS came a bit too late to alter the course of GI Joe sales - being relegated to Ross and the like) and incorporating some electronics into the toys like R/C, lights, sound and even IR emitters and receivers could have had a big impact on the sales of GI Joe. Just like before with the transition from 12" to 3" Joes, maybe it is time for the brand to go into hibernation for a while before being renewed in some altogether new format. Last edited by IC3 VIP3R; 09-09-2017 at 11:00 AM.. |
09-09-2017, 11:11 AM | #33 |
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1. No trolling, flaming or Racial Insensitivity.
Any form of personal insult is a no-no. As a basic rule of thumb: if you think that what you are about to post is insulting, don't post it. No posting with the intent of starting "Drama". If you feel the need to start trouble, go elsewhere. Last edited by Steevy Maximus; 09-09-2017 at 02:37 PM.. Reason: Offensive |
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09-09-2017, 11:41 AM | #34 |
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Quote:
I think the heavy focus on figures and their hyper-articulation is what did in the line. When ARAH was introduced, figure articulation (and detail) wasn't any better than the cheap alternatives being offered now by Hasbro's competitors. The line emphasized the vehicles and playsets and a wide variety of them. This is what attracted the kids of day.
Quote:
As much of a dumpster fire as ROC was, it sold toys. And until we get another movie- we won't see that. And Pursuit of Cobra did some great things, it was sad we never got that after the second movie. Maybe, just maybe we can keep things like the Collector's Club alive and get some good figures here and there... ...but ask yourself this, and be honest: Do we need more GI Joe? So we can have what, a new Snake Eyes variant every month? Mediocre troop builders for months, then fight tooth and nail to get the actual decent ones? You say 'bring it back a new way'. I say, "Wait until the next movie". Then we can pick through whatever scraps we get thrown. Me? I'll be gladly buying things from these up-and-coming people making figures in the same scale. |
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09-09-2017, 02:22 PM | #35 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 950
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I removed the original post, please take any conflict between you guys off the forum-SM
Last edited by Steevy Maximus; 09-09-2017 at 02:46 PM.. |
09-09-2017, 02:35 PM | #36 |
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The way I take it is that Hasbro is saying that it doesn't need or care for our support, which is asinine.
If there is a group of folks figuratively telling you "here take my money, just continue to show us that you actually know we still want more of what you're accustom to producing!!!", why neglect them while other toy companies, toy stores are out here struggling to stay afloat? Hasbro representatives know about this site as well as YoJoe, GeneralJoes and other Joe inspired web forums and they can see that there is clearly still a demand for more more Joe product. I think they just don't care anymore.
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09-09-2017, 03:04 PM | #37 |
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Dude, it's not an argument of morality but preference. You like it, I don't. And sadly, the sales of said line say that most people didn't like it, either. Without referencing YoJoe (which anyone can do and pretend to know everything about the line), I think the figures lasted less than 2 years.
Sorry, I see it as a deviation too far. Sure, it added 'articulation'- well, it also added 'cartoonish anime style' to the figures. Quite the deviation. And maybe I have a bitter taste in my mouth from the show removing the American flag from the credits. I'm glad this figure line is dead and gone and I hope we never see anything as shit-awful as this again. It'd be nice to see some of the things carry over into 3.75" figures, but a line full of oversized figures was doomed from the start. Sorry, but calling my a 'hypocrite' isn't relevant. At all. Like, it doesn't even apply to the argument. Get over it and move on. Don't like me? Use the forum's ignore feature if we have one. Quote:
Star Wars is huge stateside AND overseas. Kids and adults alike throw money at this. I know a huge Star Wars nerd that would buy a sack of boogers if you put an Imperial or Rebel crest on the sack. People just go nuts over it. GI Joe is a distinctively 'American' thing. And even then, most kids aren't as stoked about it as we are. Even then, if it was some no-name guy from Call of Duty or something, or Overwatch- they'd be all over it. Maybe an actual GOOD GI Joe video game would do something. Hell, I might start a thread over that. But don't think for a second that the 'fanbase' between these few websites constitutes anything that even resembles a 'huge target demographic'. We're small. Very, very small. Step out into the greater figure collector's market, and we're barely a blip on the radar. |
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09-09-2017, 03:26 PM | #38 |
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Like it or hate it, Sigma 6 DID get a full featured cartoon and broad retail support we and Hasbro would KILL to see for the brand today. And it DID ultimately last over 2 and half years until management scrapped Sigma 6, and, I feel, started the brand circling a drain it has never fully recovered from. The fact they've tried not once but TWICE to try and revive the traditional 12" figure amidst the nostalgia and momentum 3.75 garnered feels like salt on the wound of what they COULD have done with the 8" stylized figure format. Quote:
I think the heavy focus on figures and their hyper-articulation is what did in the line. When ARAH was introduced, figure articulation (and detail) wasn't any better than the cheap alternatives being offered now by Hasbro's competitors. The line emphasized the vehicles and playsets and a wide variety of them. This is what attracted the kids of [the] day.
The highly detailed and articulated figures are great for collectors, but make little or no difference to kids - but the price difference affects the purchasing decisions of his parents. No one under 10 years old will even notice the difference between singe or double articulated knees, articulated ankles, etc. As Hasbro moved away from vehicles and play sets and more towards focusing on the figures, their market share began to shrink as well. A cartoon appeared later, but a Marvel comic was the only "entertainment medium" support that GI Joe had at the time - and it was enough. But I also don't think the availability of vehicles (or lack thereof) would have had ANY meaningful impact on the brand (I'll elaborate more at the end of the post). Quote:
THOSE are the kinds of questions I feel aren't being asked by collectors as a whole (across multiple brands) Quote:
The way I take it is that Hasbro is saying that it doesn't need or care for our support, which is asinine.
If there is a group of folks figuratively telling you "here take my money, just continue to show us that you actually know we still want more of what you're accustom to producing!!!", why neglect them while other toy companies, toy stores are out here struggling to stay afloat? Hasbro representatives know about this site as well as YoJoe, GeneralJoes and other Joe inspired web forums and they can see that there is clearly still a demand for more more Joe product. I think they just don't care anymore. It does NOT mean that there is enough a of market for billion dollar companies to devote resources to instead of other projects. And it doesn't mean if they produce something, the market will be there to support it. After all, Big Bad Toy Store is STILL sitting on the last THREE YEARS of exclusive GI Joe product. AT (pretty close outside cases) STANDARD RETAIL PRICE! If GI Joe fans were this massive untapped market...BBTS should not still be sitting on that sort of volume and variety. Utlimately, Hasbro DOES want GI Joe to become a viable property again. IF they didn't, we would NOT be seeing the support we have through Hascon, or maintain the Collector Club, or even what little we've gotten the past 3 years. The core issue remains: How does GI Joe fit into the current toy market paradigm? A huge issue I see is that many at Hasbro and collectors themselves still try and address GI Joe like it was 15, 20, even 30 years ago. And the market isn't like that anymore. A lot of the tenants of the original line, which many have stubbornly hung on to, simply don't apply to how towlines are produced and marketed in the current market. Retailers don't use toys as loss leaders, so the average cost is simply higher. Retailers don't allocate as much space to toys as they used to, so there simply isn't as much space for large vehicle offerings. Costs have shifted so those large vehicles of yesteryear start commanding comparable costs to high end electronics (which have much more "prestige" than toys do these days). Collectors have become more vocal and more involved in the toy process, splintering many lines (like Star Wars) among multiple, declining, demographics. And on a purely fundamental level, a "vehicle line supported by figures" doesn't apply in an era where lines are almost exclusively driven by the CHARACTERS, with most everything else being secondary.
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09-09-2017, 04:09 PM | #39 |
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We got a lot of rehashed 'okay' figures. Some of them, especially if they weren't single-carded, were just heaps of shit that needed some Kitbash TLC to become 'decent' figures. GI Joe vs. Cobra, Spy Troops, and Valor vs. Venom gave us much, MUCH worse figures... and yet, some pretty good concept designs. 25th was a Nostalgia grab. As sad as it sounds, it took a movie to get those guys at Hasbro making actual modernized versions of the figures. And yes, more so (by far) than the Resolute series did. And I distinctly remember this entire forum going bananas over the great shit that cranked out during PoC. Those figures were awesome, and they still rank among my favorites in the collection. Quote:
BUT- what I've seen is that they don't play with toys the way we did. We had to sit down alone or with our buddy, with all our little plastic men, and imagine things and play. Nowadays, most of the kids I see 'playing' are making things with Lego or something like that. Action Figures just aren't the big thing. The kids I DO see with figures- they're usually based on a video game or something (Minecraft, Call of Duty, Halo, Five Nights at Freddy's, etc.) or Star Wars. GOOD GOD, does Star Wars sell figures. Overall, though? Figures don't sell like that. Toy departments have shrunk, man. Toy stores are going away- I remember when TRU was PACKED, now... maybe a few women buying diapers or baby stuff. I haven't seen any other smaller Toy Stores in about two decades. And GI Joe? Well, even in places like the Gaming/Comic/Collectable stores that I haunt- where you can find guys like us that still collect figures- the stores don't want to stock and sell toys that force them to compete with Wal-Mart or TRU (because they CAN'T). Even the old stuff, the 'classic collectables' that we see in Toyfare that are supposedly worth so much and in such a big demand... it's going to collect dust and get sold for about $20.00, tops. Maybe the store owner will get lucky and sell it on eBay or something- but otherwise, it's just taking up shelf space. And now let me call out the elephant that may not be HUGE, but it's still in the room. We're a war-weary country. I'm a damned war vet (fun fact, until a few weeks ago, the last time I was posting her was when I was deployed), and I'm sick of it. Moms and Dads these days are not too big on their kids playing 'war guys' or 'army dudes'. Some are absurdly anti-military to the point where they forbid anything resembling it outright and teach their children that military men are stupid, barbaric, larval neo-Nazis that go on to start Right Wing Death Squad militias. I live in a Red State. And at the local gaming store in a city here, we had a mob of crazy neon-haired women going bananas in this store because kids were being 'taught to glorify war and fascism' because the place sold and hosted a game called Bolt-Action (World War 2 games) and one of their kids decided he wanted to bring home a friend's Panzer tank. They're snatching Nerf guns out of the hands of little boys these days, and really want our young male children playing with more 'tame' toys. Star Wars has that whole 'rebel against evil fascists, be peaceful' thing with the Jedi, so it's safe. These people are rare, but they make a LOT of noise and get a LOT of attention. And I don't want to even imagine their thoughts on a bunch of action figures with assault rifles taking down terrorists across the globe. Because Lord knows, these people are already supportive of one violent group of thugs in masks... And I say this as a fairly un-political person. Last edited by Baron Samedi; 09-09-2017 at 04:11 PM.. |
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09-09-2017, 08:16 PM | #40 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 562
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But I also don't think the availability of vehicles (or lack thereof) would have had ANY meaningful impact on the brand (I'll elaborate more at the end of the post)...And on a purely fundamental level, a "vehicle line supported by figures" doesn't apply in an era where lines are almost exclusively driven by the CHARACTERS, with most everything else being secondary.
But add a base, some vehicles and other figures, you have the potential for a lot more playtime. At heart, every young boy likes to "play with cars". I grew up with the 12" Joes - if it were not for the HQ, jeeps, helicopters and more, they would have been a lot more boring. Last edited by IC3 VIP3R; 09-09-2017 at 08:20 PM.. |
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