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01-06-2008, 10:48 PM | #31 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunslingercbr
I'm not speaking down to you, so I am sorry you interpret it that way. but the filecard for the Viper states matter of factly and without qualification that the Viper is the lowest level of the Cobra ranks, which is then reinforced with an official Hasbro ranking of Cobra. that makes it fact, not preference or opinion . any argument otherwise is simply wrong and unreasonable (based on the original structure fro RAH, not the later changed ranking from VvV and forth). that doesn't mean you or your friends of collectors or anyone else is obligated to adhere to it, but attempting to dismiss it is dishonest.
this is even reinforced further in the Python Patrol, which saw the release of both a PP Viper and Trooper (not quite the effort to faze out the Trooper as you claim). and with those two distinct sects of Cobra being released together, the PP Viper still says that they are where any PP member has to start, so the Viper rank is not only the bottom of the Cobra organization it is apparently the bottom of every sect of it apparently. again, Hasbro saw fit to clearly state that the Viper was the bottom, even when released side by side with the Trooper. we can go on, but your attempt to claim that this clearly stated structure straight from Hasbro is simply my interpretation is unreasonable and false. no hard feelings, I hope. this exchange is not personal between us so I hope you don't take it as such. I've made my position based on clear and factual empirical evidence. it can't be any clearer or factual, and any attempt to dispute it with the position of preference simply isn't an argument I find reasonable to continue to debate, so I won't do so any longer. I think I've been as logical as can be and the subject doesn't require any further exchange on my part. I am sure any of my other previous answers will serve as sufficient response to any further attacks on my position. In '86, hasbro was clearly trying to replace blue-shirts with a new "army-builder". Even at age 11, that was pretty obvious to me. Years later they released more of each figure just to reuse the molds in different ways. I agree that it says on the Viper cards that if you want to get anywhere in the organization, you need to be a Viper first. But that does not mean the Viper is the lowest level. While "infantry" is the lowest level, Vipers are still a higher level of infantry than the blue-shirts. If you want to be a CG or some specialist, you probably need to be a Viper first. I don't disagree with that. I still maintain that blue-shirt are even lower level of infantry. The file cards state that Vipers are given better gear, training and weapons, so I interpret that as a step-up from a rag-tag black mask and a random gun. Again, if there is something offical from Hasbro, point us to it; otherwise it really is your interpretation, not a fact. Blue-shirts were the bottom long before there were any vipers... Seriously, I believe that you believe what you are saying, but we long-time collectors need hard evidence to acknowledge an idea that contradicts 25 years of thinking. |
01-06-2008, 11:33 PM | #32 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brumphis, NJ
Posts: 2,106
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This argument is starting to make me think of an old Saturday Night Live skit with William Shatner at a Star Trek convention.
Hasbro has left enough holes in their "canon" to let us fill as we see fit. Viper Vs Trooper? They are both pretty low on the Cobra totem pole. I think we can interpret the rankings at that level as we want. Only thing that always made me wonder - why are stinger and hiss drivers officers? Last edited by Moses; 01-06-2008 at 11:38 PM.. |
01-07-2008, 01:44 AM | #33 |
Hisstank Ninja
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mint on Card
Posts: 8,956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moses
This argument is starting to make me think of an old Saturday Night Live skit with William Shatner at a Star Trek convention.
Hasbro has left enough holes in their "canon" to let us fill as we see fit. Viper Vs Trooper? They are both pretty low on the Cobra totem pole. I think we can interpret the rankings at that level as we want. Only thing that always made me wonder - why are stinger and hiss drivers officers? I think gunslingercbr's point is that (correct me if I'm wrong, for I VERY often am) Vipers are clearly indicated as the bottom of the barrel... Troopers assumed to be so. However, given that Troopers are labeled E4, which leaves room for lower ranks, it would seem that logic infers that Vipers are the bottom. Right? Oh, and in answer to your question, Moses... if you there were the world's most dangerous terrorist, would you want the new recruit driving you around? Nah, you'd want someone more trained and higher in your organization. Plus, a ragtag nobody can be given a black mask and gun (or body armor in the case of Vipers), but do you want him driving an expensive piece of machinery? Not that it ever seemed to matter in a fight with the Joes...
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01-07-2008, 02:13 AM | #34 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brumphis, NJ
Posts: 2,106
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I think in the case of the drivers, I would definitely want them trained - but they would more likely be E4-E5, rather than O4-O5. Pilots would be a different story, and they should be officers. And at the same time, I wouldn't hand out expensive weaponry and armor to raw recruits either - I would save it for better trained and experienced troops. But then again, I have no experience in running a terrorist organization. Maybe the fact that Cobra gives the heavy weaponry to the lowest ranks is the reason they never succeeded in taking over the world. How would Jack Welch do it?
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01-07-2008, 02:46 PM | #35 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 67
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a lot of this discussion hinges on the "bottom of the barrel" line and the E-4 equivalent. if you've ever held rank in the armed forces E-1 through E-4 is all bottom of the barrel. thats all considered junior enlisted, not till E-5 do you have any authority and even then you're still in the suck. seems everyone is trying to take all this stuff way too literally.
seriously, my 25th Flint filecard has him as an E-6 even though he's a WO. |
02-05-2008, 08:53 AM | #36 |
Gear-Viper
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cobra Island
Posts: 229
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I find the whole aspect of ranks, uniforms, icons, military organization, and specialist troops with cool gear & prefixes (storm-, snow-, desert-... sounds familiar?) vary, vary interesting.
I have been doing some research on the rank and organization of Cobra for a game I'm working on. I have read through lots of File Cards, and as you guys have found out, the cards tend to contradict one another. This seems do to the company constantly introducing new figures each year and phasing out some of the older ones. In the case of Blue Shirts and Vipers, the Blue Shirts started off as Cobra's primary force who where well trained and highly skilled. As more and more personal was introduced, the Green Shirts was marginalized to 'bottom rung' statues until they got replaced by Vipers in 86. In 04, the Green Shirts was re-introduced as 'bottom rung' soldiers who have to work their way up to Viper status. From reading lot of cards and internet research, and then piecing together the information, I found how Green Shirts advance in rank and branch out into other types of Vipers. So a squad of Green Shirts (5 troops & 1 officer) advance to a Viper Pit (5 Vipers & 1 Leader), and the Vipers advance to specialist Vipers. Vipers my become Weapon Specialists (FLAK-, Frag-, HEAT-, LASER-, Shock-, or SAW-Vipers), Environmental Specialists (Night-, Rock-, Range-, or Sand-Vipers), Field Specialists (Tele-, Techno-, or Medi-Vipers), a Vehicle Specialist (Motor-Viper), Naval (Eel), Air Force Trainee (Air-Viper), or a Crimson Guard Initiate (Crimson Viper). Most of thesis positions are gateways to more prestigious positions. Members of the Night Crew (Green Shirts who are on night watch) and Vipers can train to become Night-Vipers. Night-Vipers can advance to an Ally-Viper, then to a Pit-Viper, and then a Ninja-Viper. Storm-Shadow is the head trainer of the Ninja-Vipers. Tele-Vipers typically advance to Cobra Intelligence. Techno-Vipers and Medi-Vipers typically advance to Cobra's Science Division (becoming Scientists and Engineers). The Baroness is the Chief Intelligence Officer of Cobra Intelligence. Dr. Mindbender is the Chief Scientist of the Cobra's Science Division. Motor-Vipers can advance to Cobra's Armored Division (HISS Divers, Track-Vipers, Nitro-Vipers, or WORMS). Eels can advance to a Lamprey, Moray, or the Polar Forces (Snow-Viper or Ice-Viper [w/Techno-Viper training]). Copperhead is Cobra’s Naval Commander. Air-Vipers (trainee level) can advance to a helicopter pilot (Gyro-, Heli-Vipers) or a fighter pilot (AVAC, Aero-, or Strato-Viper). A Strato-Viper can advance to the Aerospace Program (Star-, or Astro-Viper). Crimson Vipers can advance to a Crimson Guard Immoral, then to a "Siege" (CG "Crimson Guard"), and then a Crimson Guard Commander. Members of the Armored Division may join the Immortal Armor Division. A Siege who has been trained as a Ninja-Viper can become a member of the Crimson Shadow Guard. Tomax & Xamot are the Supreme Crimson Guard Commanders. Siege who are attached to the Python Patrol are not under Major Bludd command, but are serving as "Political Officers". Vipers who are disobedient, get assigned as Desert Scorpions for a year as punishment. Punishment for a major offense is an assignment as a Toxo-Viper. Major Bludd is the highest ranking field officer of Cobra Command, and was given his own unit called the Python Patrol. Cobra Commander is the Supreme Leader of Cobra. Destro is not a member of Cobra, but is the CEO of the M.A.R.S. organization (Military Armaments Research Syndicate) and leader of the Iron Grenadiers. Zartan is also not a member of Cobra, but the leader of the Dreadnoks. And Firefly is to roughish to be a file & rank member of Cobra. WOW! That is a lot of info! I hope this is helpful to somebody? |
02-05-2008, 09:47 AM | #37 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Netherlands, Europe
Posts: 108
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Fantastic Malcadon!
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02-05-2008, 09:56 AM | #38 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brumphis, NJ
Posts: 2,106
|
Pretty impressive research Malcadon. Only one question/comment. I thought greenshirt was the entry level rank in the Joe team and blueshirt is entry level for Cobra.
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02-05-2008, 10:47 AM | #39 |
Agent
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 15,325
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ok I have seen both red and silver snakes on both troopers and officers. Who is higher in rank? It could go both ways. Silver=higher because of more value in the color. Red=higher given because of being battle hardened and having a confirmed combat kill.
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02-05-2008, 10:59 AM | #40 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Posts: 256
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcadon
I find the whole aspect of ranks, uniforms, icons, military organization, and specialist troops with cool gear & prefixes (storm-, snow-, desert-... sounds familiar?) vary, vary interesting.
I have been doing some research on the rank and organization of Cobra for a game I'm working on. I have read through lots of File Cards, and as you guys have found out, the cards tend to contradict one another. This seems do to the company constantly introducing new figures each year and phasing out some of the older ones. In the case of Blue Shirts and Vipers, the Blue Shirts started off as Cobra's primary force who where well trained and highly skilled. As more and more personal was introduced, the Green Shirts was marginalized to 'bottom rung' statues until they got replaced by Vipers in 86. In 04, the Green Shirts was re-introduced as 'bottom rung' soldiers who have to work their way up to Viper status. From reading lot of cards and internet research, and then piecing together the information, I found how Green Shirts advance in rank and branch out into other types of Vipers. So a squad of Green Shirts (5 troops & 1 officer) advance to a Viper Pit (5 Vipers & 1 Leader), and the Vipers advance to specialist Vipers. Vipers my become Weapon Specialists (FLAK-, Frag-, HEAT-, LASER-, Shock-, or SAW-Vipers), Environmental Specialists (Night-, Rock-, Range-, or Sand-Vipers), Field Specialists (Tele-, Techno-, or Medi-Vipers), a Vehicle Specialist (Motor-Viper), Naval (Eel), Air Force Trainee (Air-Viper), or a Crimson Guard Initiate (Crimson Viper). Most of thesis positions are gateways to more prestigious positions. Members of the Night Crew (Green Shirts who are on night watch) and Vipers can train to become Night-Vipers. Night-Vipers can advance to an Ally-Viper, then to a Pit-Viper, and then a Ninja-Viper. Storm-Shadow is the head trainer of the Ninja-Vipers. Tele-Vipers typically advance to Cobra Intelligence. Techno-Vipers and Medi-Vipers typically advance to Cobra's Science Division (becoming Scientists and Engineers). The Baroness is the Chief Intelligence Officer of Cobra Intelligence. Dr. Mindbender is the Chief Scientist of the Cobra's Science Division. Motor-Vipers can advance to Cobra's Armored Division (HISS Divers, Track-Vipers, Nitro-Vipers, or WORMS). Eels can advance to a Lamprey, Moray, or the Polar Forces (Snow-Viper or Ice-Viper [w/Techno-Viper training]). Copperhead is Cobra’s Naval Commander. Air-Vipers (trainee level) can advance to a helicopter pilot (Gyro-, Heli-Vipers) or a fighter pilot (AVAC, Aero-, or Strato-Viper). A Strato-Viper can advance to the Aerospace Program (Star-, or Astro-Viper). Crimson Vipers can advance to a Crimson Guard Immoral, then to a "Siege" (CG "Crimson Guard"), and then a Crimson Guard Commander. Members of the Armored Division may join the Immortal Armor Division. A Siege who has been trained as a Ninja-Viper can become a member of the Crimson Shadow Guard. Tomax & Xamot are the Supreme Crimson Guard Commanders. Siege who are attached to the Python Patrol are not under Major Bludd command, but are serving as "Political Officers". Vipers who are disobedient, get assigned as Desert Scorpions for a year as punishment. Punishment for a major offense is an assignment as a Toxo-Viper. Major Bludd is the highest ranking field officer of Cobra Command, and was given his own unit called the Python Patrol. Cobra Commander is the Supreme Leader of Cobra. Destro is not a member of Cobra, but is the CEO of the M.A.R.S. organization (Military Armaments Research Syndicate) and leader of the Iron Grenadiers. Zartan is also not a member of Cobra, but the leader of the Dreadnoks. And Firefly is to roughish to be a file & rank member of Cobra. WOW! That is a lot of info! I hope this is helpful to somebody? The Desert Scorpions always looked bad ass in my opinion, shame that they are getting punished! Oh and Crimson Guard Immoral Wouldn't want to mess with him!
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