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04-20-2008, 12:28 AM | #341 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 427
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Im just happy they didn't butcher Snake Eyes custome. I have two complaints, I dont like the idea of the power suits, but I live with it. Im kinda pissed Storm Shadow is not wearing his mask, but the white suit and nija custome are pretty cool
Oh Yea, while I do think Baroness is hot, I think Cover Girl & Scarlett are super hot, and boy does Scarlett have an ass. Last edited by SnakeEyes2184; 04-20-2008 at 12:33 AM.. |
04-20-2008, 12:37 AM | #342 |
$0.98 on clearance
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Benicia, California
Posts: 1,347
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Word on the A$$ dude!
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04-20-2008, 12:53 AM | #343 |
Banned
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Location: AT HOME
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STORM SHADOW |
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04-20-2008, 01:39 AM | #344 |
Resident 80's Addict
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Springfield, Missouri
Posts: 460
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Nope. You're definitely not the only one.
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04-20-2008, 09:21 AM | #345 |
Anditron 3000
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canal Winchester, Ohio
Posts: 642
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Personal attacks are very unneccesary and just plain incendiary. Please do not go down that road.
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04-20-2008, 09:54 AM | #346 |
SurveillancePort.com
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: M.A.R.S. EVERGLADES ARMORY
Posts: 21,464
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Quote:
And in case he wasn't clear enough, let me again remind you all. PERSONAL ATTACKS WILL RESULT IN YOU BEING BANNED. Clear enough? Thanks. |
04-20-2008, 02:39 PM | #347 |
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: a house
Posts: 145
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Quote:
When they tried to make the GI.Joe movie in the early 90's, I seem to remember Hamma ripping on that script in the pitt. Something to the extent of "Roadblock, and snakeeyes weren't even in the script I(Hamma) read. Go figure". So yes when he was given creative control over the joe verse (at least the writing of), and he was given a stupid character. He treated them like a stupid character. When He was given a stupid character he was forced to write about (saw viper) He made them a total badass. More badass than paramount is going to make marlon waynes. |
04-20-2008, 04:44 PM | #348 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ledyard
Posts: 25
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the problem with your argument is that you are attempting to compare, I believe, all those lines with the early and most successful time frame of RAH. well, there are certainly many other factors, other than change, that influence the successful of Joe at those later time lines.
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Sigma 6 -- arguably not any less successful than GvC
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through VvV, which were just new incarnations of RAH and contained similar elements,
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the animated movie -- came out at a time when possible early adopters of RAH were outgrowing the brand to begin with, so change in it's demographic could have as much to do with it's lack of success as change in the toyline.
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Extreme -- that simply violated one of the most essential brand elements of what makes a G.I. Joe and what consumers expect -- articulation; Joe is about military/sci-fi/adventure, accessories, and articulation. if you make a figure without articulation, Joe consumers simply won't be interested.
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there are far more reasons why those lines never achieved the success of early RAH than just change,
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you have oversimplified the market and environment and have made a flawed argument.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor Quote:
I'll be happy to discuss this with you further, but you will have to be willing to dig deeper and address all the factors that led to each of their relative successes to have an accurate discussion.
Look up Inductive reasoning http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning Quote:
I have a pretty heavy background in research and analysis, so it is a curse to know that most problems go far deeper than just the surface answers that appear on immediate inspection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority Quote:
that's the point, you are attempting to claim the change is making them unrecognizable. I don't think it does.
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G.I. Joe is still a military/sci-fi/adventure brand with these changes, and most basic elements of the characters that the majority of the audience will remember are still incorporated into these new designs: Stormshadow - ninja in white. Snake Eyes -- in black with his visor. Scarlett - red head. Cobra Commander - raspy voice. Destro - silver metallic face. Baroness - in black with glasses.
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I'm not claiming the movie will be a hit, and I don't think the Joe brand will ever achieve the same success as early RAH, but it won't be simply because some elements have been changed.
I believe I'm going by historical precedence on this one. |
04-20-2008, 05:21 PM | #349 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Monrovia, CA
Posts: 12,065
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And why do you suppose the 25th anniversary line has been so successful? Could it be because it has gone back to the roots of the original GIJoe/Cobra canon or is it because the demographic for some reason just arbitrarily decided Sigma 6 wasn't as good as the 25th line?
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see above. you've mistakenly seperated VvV from GvC when most believe that they are both part of the "new sculpt" line, in which the figures are grouped together by their design, not theme. Quote:
Did you ever consider the animated movie was such an extreme departure from the established continuity from the cartoon that perhaps that was what destroyed the franchise at that time? But since your analysis is not anymore proven to be true than mine, I don't see why you hold a special insight into this than I do.
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No I don't think I have made a flawed argument, I believe you have. You have chosen to ignore the obvious conditions that resulted in lackluster financial successes with the modern era GI Joe franchise and have over-burdened your analysis with unnecessary complexity. Original RAH, widely successful, 25th toyline, widely successful, any drastic change, a failure. It would behoove you to look up the scientific principle of Occam's Razor.
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This is a disingenuous argument. It requires more than just an asian guy in a white suit to have enough similarity to the well established, well known character of the 80's called Storm Shadow that most fans understand is supposed to be a Ninja, and would expect him to at least resemble a ninja dressed in white. I am not going by arbitrary observation on this one either as the past hugely successful comic book films have been adaptations that were similar to the original storytelling and appearance of the character, Spiderman, Superman, etc.
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How much change will result in a commercial failure is a matter of degree. A little change is not enough to doom a franchise. Spiderman for example in the movie portrayed his ability to shoot webs from his wrists as part of his abilities rather than from a device he invented was a departure from the comics, but this was a relatively minor and innocuous change from the original story. It was not imperative to the storytelling nor drastically different enough to make a difference to the fans. So I'm not saying a little change guarantees failure, I'm saying a lot of change, to the point of unrecognizable characters historically has meant commercial failure.
I believe I'm going by historical precedence on this one. on the contrary, history is on my side. G.I. Joe is still a military sci-fi unit, but now instead of Jet packs and lasers being the sci-fi element, you get accelerator suits and pulse cannons. they are still battling Destro and Cobra, and the basic, most identifiable traits are still present. the change isn't as drastic as you claim, simply your acceptance of it. good debate and well articulated, but still too exclusive in the factors to try and validate your point IMO. and let me qualify my position -- I do think that the changes in this movie will reduce it's success with capturing a nostalgic audience, but the movie has a far better chance of succeeding capturing a new audience which the changes I think will capture better than strict adherence to designs and stories created 25 years ago -- and can be just as equally enjoyable to the entire audience. Last edited by gunslingercbr; 04-20-2008 at 05:41 PM.. |
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04-20-2008, 05:24 PM | #350 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,224
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Sir, I would like to point out that you just cited three wikipedia entries in a single post.
Furthermore, you compared ARAH to 25th Anniversary by referring to both as "widely successful". The level of success is relative to the market in which the lines were released. The former was available here, there, and everywhere, with massive loads of figures, vehicles, and playsets on store shelves at all times. The latter competes against more varieties of action figures than ever, more electronic items, and (especially) a video game market that dwarfs anything even conceivable in the 1980s. Yes, 25th Anniversary exceeded both retailer and manufacturer expectations, and it can certainly be called a success. There are, however, different levels of success, and pound for pound, 25th Anniverary cannot touch ARAH in terms of sales volume, period. Your opinion on changes is what it is, but this particular comparison is all kinds of invalid on its face. Hasbro went into 25th Anniversary with a completely different target demographic in mind. If your point has any merit of which to speak, then show me a line of military-themed action figures that were concurrently available in retail stores with any of the less popular G.I. JOE lines and managed to post stronger sales numbers. If you cannot demonstrate this, then does not Occam's Razor strongly suggest that children's interests simply evolved with the times? Of course it does. And yes, of course 25th Anniversary, with its smaller number of changes, is more popular with collectors than Valor vs. Venom or Sigma Six. That goes without saying. In fact, it has even managed to turn people who had never collected toys as adults into enthusiastic collectors. Had the same mindset with which Hasbro approached ARAH (or even Sigma Six, for that matter) been applied, however, it would have been a financial disaster. I am sorry, but Occam's Razor doesn't mean ignoring everything inconvenient to my specious argument. Besides, three seasons of Batman Beyond and two seasons of a spinoff series completely debunk the notion that "drastic change" to a fictional universe is inherently doomed to fail. |
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