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04-19-2008, 08:37 AM | #311 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ledyard
Posts: 25
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I don't know why that would bother you. White actors play characters of a different ethnic origin all the time. Anthony Quinn who was hispanic played a Greek in Zorba the Greek and was nominated for an oscar. Paul Giamatti who is of Italian descent played John Adams who was of English descent. Gene Hackman plays a Polish soldier in A Bridge Too Far. I could point out a million instances where white dudes played a character where they didn't share the exact same ethnic origin. This shouldn't bother you. He's playing a character, as long as he can pass visually as that character that should be enough.
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04-19-2008, 08:42 AM | #312 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Don't take it personally.
It seems that whenever an issue arises, people fracture quickly into opposing extreme viewpoints. Fact is, this is to be expected and there will be no end to it. The supporters will claim vicotry and state that nothing else could have worked when the movie is a success and the purists will be stuck stewing in their own juices because thee will be no way to prove their viewpoint. The movie will probably be at least successful enough to merit a sequel even if it genuinely sucks. The most effective way to proceed is for everyone to be honest with themselves about their opinions. I've seen this before: some people simply "spout the party line" agreeing with every decision the director and producers make. Others will look at them like zombies. With personal, critical honesty, we can isolate what is working (Snake Eyes' visor) and what isn't (Snake Eyes' teeth) and make our common opinions known. When the Transformers movie was being made, the fans were so concerned with their own expectations they took for granted a lot of issues that they would later agree almost unanimously upon. There were endless debates about Arcee being in an early draft of the script and whether Optimus Prime would be a box-cab. Arcee was replaced with Ironhide due DIRECTLY to fan outcry in the scripting stages. Optimus Prime was never going to be changed. The design was simply too far along to scrap and start over. So the fans, disorganized and quarreling amongst themselves about the flame paintjob on Prime, while a horrific Megatron/Starscream design slipped right under the radar. When the first pics of Starscream hit, they were dismissed as a hoax and ignored until it was too late to do anything. When Megatron's design was leaked, there were concentrated direct verbal assaults by webmasters and fans alike directed at both Hasbro and Michael Bay (notably by Seibertron.com) stating that the design was simply unacceptable as it bore absolutely NO resemblance to the character for which it was named. Several months later, a newly tweaked design was decided upon for Megatron with the most noticeable changes being a completely redesigned head. Much of the movie merchandise still bears the artwork from the original "reptilian" design. (For examples, see many of the shirts, packaging, cross-marketing artwork and even a 2008 calendar which features the original design in an early month and the revised final design later in the year) Unfortunately, GI Joe's character costumes are finalized. As they are not CGI characters to be integrated later, it's probably too late to change much. However, minor changes such as Destro's mask and the Commander's can probably still be saved. The tricky part is that we haven't officially seen these designs yet. However, if the mask I saw in that picture belongs to Destro, there is cause for worry. This mask, while sharing certain elements of the Range Viper and Sand Viper masks, resembles no established basic Cobra Trooper. It could be the face of a Viper, the new face of the Neo Vipers, or it could be Destro. Personally, I would find that this flies in the face of 25+ years of established history no matter how you slice it. (SKAR troopers?) If it IS a Viper of some sort, I'm afraid that they have probably already gone into mass production for filming and are not likely to be changed. If, however, this mask belongs to a single character, it could probably still be overturned as this character will likely only have a few short scenes. We have very little to go on, but I will say this: if there are issues that the fans CAN come to a consensus on and we don't explore them, those involved in making this movie will be little the wiser. Further, this information can best be gleaned by fair and unedited polls which remain open. Will there be bickeing? Inevitably. This is the nature of democracy. Will there be annoying redundancy? You betcha. But I believe that a little extra board space being taken up with hot air is a small price to pay for giving our fan community a voice. A voice that represents ALL of us and not just the whims and patience of a few. While I agree with some of your post, you are taking a lot of things as "majority opinion." The reality is that, as with any situation in real life, the people who usually get heard the most are the ones who complain. Why? Because they want to have their voice heard about what they perceive is the majority belief. Those who are indifferent, or fine with the current situation tend not to speak up. They are also almost always the majority. Yes the Megatron situation is one example of how things were changed, but in the end the change was not really that big. The new Megatron head still was closer to the first draft than any G1 similarity. The same goes for GI JOE. The reality is that filming has already started. The photos show that costumes are picked, produced and worn. The mask you seem worried about has absolutely no context, so there is little that can be done about changing something we know nothing about. Finally, there is a big difference here than with the Transformers movie. That is communication. Don Murphy and the writers were much more vocal and involved with the online fan base while making the movie, including preproduction, than the GI JOE movie makers. So while they may be aware of the fans online, and even watching the boards, they are not (seemingly) as open/involved/communicative with us as the Transformers fans. |
04-19-2008, 08:55 AM | #313 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ledyard
Posts: 25
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Quote:
Everytime they change the original formula to something so unrecognizable, it doesn't do nearly as well. This isn't just true for GI Joe but for every franchise. Batman, Superman, Spiderman, the more unrecognizable it becomes the less successful it is. So why you think it is for some reason good that GI Joe be all about change is beyond me. Why not just come up with any random arbitrary military characters, call them Moe Larry and Curly, and slap a GI Joe logo on them? I mean they have already made Storm Shadow, who is supposed to be a ninja, look like he's a member of Menudo. |
04-19-2008, 09:01 AM | #314 |
Resident 80's Addict
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Springfield, Missouri
Posts: 460
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I'm sorry to say it because I hate being negative, but I absolutely abhor just about everything I've been hearing and now seeing about this movie.
Visually, I cannot stand what they've done to these characters. To all of you people who say that the classic looks (updated a bit) wouldn't work in 2008, I could not disagree with you more. Why wouldn't they work? How are bland, generic black "power suits" that take away from the uniqueness of the characters a good thing? If the 1982 generic green look would've stayed throughout the line from year to year, the line would not have taken off the way it did. These pictures are very, VERY disappointing. Just because the name "G.I. Joe" is on the title of the film does NOT make it so. Same goes for the names of the characters. Just because a character is named "Storm-Shadow" does not make him so. What would make this film in reality live up to the name "G.I. Joe" is a loyalty to the endearing characters and story we all know and love. Completely changing or somewhat changing 90% (completely arbitrary percentage) of the familiar things that made the franchise so popular and then slapping on the name "G.I. Joe" (and naming the characters somewhat accurately) doesn't make this a G.I. Joe movie. That's a fact, jack. From reading all 30-some pages of comments in this thread, it's pretty apparent to me that some here will blindly accept ANYTHING that has the name "G.I. Joe" on it. Not me, sirs. I just can't accept some things like this. Therefore, I most likely will not pay to see it....and I'm sure that Paramount and Hasbro won't care, and that's fine with me. From the looks of it, this is more like X-Men: Sigma Sux or Metal Gear Solid : International Heroes. On a slightly more positive note, I can deal with Snake Eyes, Hawk, and Baroness as they look right now. They all have looks that are unique and at least somewhat resemble the characters from the comic book, cartoon, and toy line. Why they can't do that with the other characters is beyond me.
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Last edited by Commander Hawk; 04-19-2008 at 09:13 AM.. |
04-19-2008, 09:07 AM | #315 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ledyard
Posts: 25
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What I don't get is the constant "[sic]Teh baroness looks [sic]hawt" comments. I mean was anyone really worried they would have the Baroness look fat and ugly? I think our expectations should be a little higher than that.
Last edited by JohnnyBigGuns; 04-19-2008 at 09:10 AM.. |
04-19-2008, 09:32 AM | #316 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fairfax Va
Posts: 1,177
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they did the designs on the transformers for the movie last year and I like what they did on the characters of TF as for gijoe characters, they don't look too bad, it's the design they did for the movie, I'll see it at the theaters of course, I'm sure the movie will turn out ok for other movie goers.
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04-19-2008, 09:56 AM | #317 |
SurveillancePort.com
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: M.A.R.S. EVERGLADES ARMORY
Posts: 21,464
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Listen up, people. I'm only going to say this once.
You want to debate this topic? By all means, please do so. The personal attacks? Not welcome here. You want to feel tough behind a screen? Do so elsewhere. Your i-bravado certainly doesn't make you look "cool". This comment is directed to those for whom the shoe fits. Again, feel free to praise the costumes/complain about the costumes for as long as you want. Just show some friggin' respect for one another. Just remember this though: A lot of you seem to have selective memory. I recall DESTRO clearly stating that those power suits where in a SCENE of the movie, not the ENTIRE movie. I could be completely wrong and these could be a staple of the movie, but either way...simmer down. |
04-19-2008, 10:04 AM | #318 |
Win, Lose or Die
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Canton, Michigan
Posts: 9,661
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I have a lot of mixed emotions about theses pics. Like everyone else I am not a massive fan of the "mouth piece" on SE. The power suits I could really care less about, as I believe we will see different versions of these characters in the film. If they are used at the end (possibly the beginning? And no, I did not read any scripts), and are used in a way that makes sense, then OK. Yes, I would love to see all of the original designs used, but I accept that it just won't happen. I don't like it, but I don't work on the movie set and neither do any of us. Changes will be made, some better, some worse. I'm not worried about lack of Cobra symbols, this is a genesis movie, and more than likely we'll see some before the end of it. I honestly thought SS would look worse, although I am not completely sold on him yet. The women look great, big suprise there. As for Duke, I don't care about the goatee. Geez, Duke has sported facial hair a number of time in the comics, not a big deal. I do wish he was blonde, but if his portrayal is strong, I can deal. Ripcord I don't care about anyway. All these pics are studio poses, and think they will all look better in motion. I am waiting for a trailer to really see things. And I will wait until the movie drops to make a judgement one way or the other.
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04-19-2008, 11:59 AM | #319 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Monrovia, CA
Posts: 12,065
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Quote:
Sigma 6 -- arguably not any less successful than GvC through VvV, which were just new incarnations of RAH and contained similar elements, so if Sigma 6's change in direction is attributed to it's lack of success, what is GvC through VvV's excuse? the animated movie -- came out at a time when possible early adopters of RAH were outgrowing the brand to begin with, so change in it's demographic could have as much to do with it's lack of success as change in the toyline. Extreme -- that simply violated one of the most essential brand elements of what makes a G.I. Joe and what consumers expect -- articulation; Joe is about military/sci-fi/adventure, accessories, and articulation. if you make a figure without articulation, Joe consumers simply won't be interested. there are far more reasons why those lines never achieved the success of early RAH than just change, just as there are far more reasons why early RAH was successful than just adhering to military realism of the past. you have oversimplified the market and environment and have made a flawed argument. I'll be happy to discuss this with you further, but you will have to be willing to dig deeper and address all the factors that led to each of their relative successes to have an accurate discussion. I have a pretty heavy background in research and analysis, so it is a curse to know that most problems go far deeper than just the surface answers that appear on immediate inspection. sure, it is easier to just tap that initial factor as the cause, they usually seem to make sense on the surface, but it just usually isn't accurate by themselves and there are deeper causes as well that are just as responsible if not more. Quote:
Everytime they change the original formula to something so unrecognizable, it doesn't do nearly as well. This isn't just true for GI Joe but for every franchise. Batman, Superman, Spiderman, the more unrecognizable it becomes the less successful it is. So why you think it is for some reason good that GI Joe be all about change is beyond me. Why not just come up with any random arbitrary military characters, call them Moe Larry and Curly, and slap a GI Joe logo on them? I mean they have already made Storm Shadow, who is supposed to be a ninja, look like he's a member of Menudo.
I'm not claiming the movie will be a hit, and I don't think the Joe brand will ever achieve the same success as early RAH, but it won't be simply because some elements have been changed. Last edited by gunslingercbr; 04-19-2008 at 12:08 PM.. |
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04-19-2008, 12:09 PM | #320 |
Cobra Sith Lord
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Surf City, CA
Posts: 9,607
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I've tried making this point dozens of times but people don't seem to recognize the fact that a lot of us started "growing up" between 1986-1988 and therefore the line lost it's main audience and therefore lost some popularity as well.
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