Sigma 6 - Kung Fu Grip - Combat Squad Cancelled

[Juice]

I find it amusing that after the 8 inch brought out so many good figs everyone is so quick to bash it. I have a huge collection of of 3 & 3/4 Joes from when I was a good. It's so easy to say you knew something was going to fail after you know the outcome. Let's face it with the 25th anniv line. It is the same figures with a slightly different mold but with holsters this time. I love Joes in general but S6 should be applauded for trying something new. The 25th anniv line is simply not that original. Are they cool? Sure but so are the 8inch.

[Juice]

To organize my thoughts better... What it comes down is the 25th anniv line is not original while the 8inch was. It is very easy to say you something coming after the outcome is known. It the 25th anniv sells then great. I will say that the 2.5inch of S6 was pretty weak especially those little unarticulated 3 pack figures.

[Shin Densetsu]

Originally Posted by Juice

To organize my thoughts better... What it comes down is the 25th anniv line is not original while the 8inch was. It is very easy to say you something coming after the outcome is known. It the 25th anniv sells then great. I will say that the 2.5inch of S6 was pretty weak especially those little unarticulated 3 pack figures.

From your perspective then, 8" isn't original either. 8" predates 3-3/4" by a couple years, it was introduced in the mid-late 70's with the Super Joe line.

[Juice]

I think that the current 8" line is an original take on things. Even though there was an 8" line in the past. The 25th anniv is the same exact figures from years ago with some improvements. Is Hasbro going re-release the entire 3 & 3/4" line slightly modified? I think the current 8" line should be appreciated as an interesting new direction.

[misterd]

Conflicting reports coming from reps at SDCC who seem to have marginal information isn't surprising.

What is surprising is how quickly S6 went from the darling of the Joe line to getting shoved out the door.

I know little aside from what has been reported here and elsewhere, but based on what is known, I wouldn't write the line off completely yet. If it were truly dead, Hasbro would pull the plug early as it did on Xevoz and the 2.5 line. If they are releasing the figures, it is likely with at least a hope, however slim, that something will catch.

I think what went wrong is Hasbro got encouraged by early sales of S6 and jumped the gun, rushing too much product on the shelves, and introducing a second line before the 1st had really established itself. Retailers also jumped the gun, and overordered, but largely the same few sets of figures (most notably Sigma Strike Duke and the repackaged Green Case Wave 4 Commandos). Thus we got a glut in the market during the holiday and post-holiday season. These poor decisions kicked formerly enthusiastic retailers into reluctant buyers in almost record time.

I can't tell you how many sets of Wave 5 Soldiers (Shipwreck) my WM got in in Feb. At least 8, and I bought at least 3 of them (1 for me, 2 for others). Some of those figures are still sitting on the shelves. But tis week, the new Soldier wave came in, and all but 1 was gone by the time I got there (I got mine already via BBTS). The line seems to do well enough when there is NEW product on the shelves. Not bucketloads of green cased reissues of figures that are still in stock, nor of higher priced sets of a figure that had already seen 4 different releases.

I always figured these new lines were a fishing expedition to see what, if anything, would catch on with kids, and I could see any number of possible outcomes. Maybe they all succeed and all get moved forward. I doubt that. Maybe they all fail, and the 8" experiment ends here. Or maybe its a mix, and Hasbro continues some while dropping others.

If I were to gamble...

I think the AT is going to succeed, simply because of it's quality. What scares me is the $20 tag, but with only 3 figures, I don't think we'll see a glut on the shelves.

I think the Soldiers can sell well, especially Gung Ho and Iron Grenadier and Storm Shadow. However, I am nervous about the fact that the next wave of Soldiers is essentially a reissue of the figures that were overstocked in February, plus Short Fuze. And I really don't know if Hasbro would continue the Soldiers without a higher-priced set of figures to anchor it.

The Commandos scare me. Flint looks like a quality figure, but his new look is chasing off older collectors (the ones who made many earlier figures hard to find). Red Banshee looks like crap. It's hard to take Evel Kneival Stormy seriously. I'm not sure how Windfire CC will look with mismatched chrome and silver plastic. Heavy Duty is the first near-complete repaint figure the line has seen (save for the head). Most troublesome is that this has been the backbone of the line. If it goes, the whole thing might follow.

I don't know what to make of Combat Squad. Lower cost to produce, but not terribly good results. Yet I've heard from a number of non-Sigma buyers that they look good and plan to pick some up (I know, anecdotal evidence is weak evidence). The next wave, if released, certainly looks better.

If in the end the line falls, it will be disappointing, but I was already at the end of my collecting days. I'm done with TFs, and vowed to leave the 8" line once shelf space ran out. If it goes prematurely, it saves me a little time and money.

BTW - to the 3.75 collectors - there ain't many of you, and there's fewer of us collecting the 8". Many of us didn't do the 3.75 before, so don't expect us to help save the 3.75 line either. I don't wish you ill, but the line failed to find a broad appeal after repeated attempts in the first half of the decade. I'm not sure this 2 year layoff will change anything, but I wish you the best of luck.

[Nightrain]

Was it really necessary to make 50 different versions of Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow?

I think it's time to dump the whole ninja feud in GI Joe. In fact I'd like Storm Shadow killed off and Snake Eyes injured just enough to lose his 1337 skillz but still able to fire an uzi.

But I'm just rambling here.

[Shin Densetsu]

Originally Posted by Juice

I think that the current 8" line is an original take on things. Even though there was an 8" line in the past. The 25th anniv is the same exact figures from years ago with some improvements. Is Hasbro going re-release the entire 3 & 3/4" line slightly modified? I think the current 8" line should be appreciated as an interesting new direction.

They aren't the same exact figures. The molds and body construction are all new. Same characters yes, but vastly different bodies. The only thing in common really is the size/scale. None of the body parts on the anniversary were ever used on figures prior to the anniversary line.

Believe me, there are a lot of sigma 6 and 8" fans. There are people now who say the line was doomed, but for as many fans that hated the line, there was just as much supporters. It was an interesting direction with great toys. I even liked the 2.5" scale vehicles. Its a shame to see it go away next year, but the 8" line at least will go out at its best.

[Juice]

Shin I totally understand what you are saying. From my point of view the 25th anni line isn't that original. I understand the part deal and the mold issue. The Duke looks very similar to the original Duke but with a holster. Because of that I wonder if kids will want to play with them. It seems like Hasbro might be tanking the different line to go with something that worked many years ago. I just wonder where they are going to go from here. Can adult collectors keep the line alive? Well Hasbro release the entire old line again with updated versions? Will realistic military toys sell during the current world environment? Adventure team and Vietnam?

[Juice]

Sometimes I wonder if all of us Joe collectors are screwed. Transformers and Spider-Man have a live action movie along with new animated shows. It seems to me to really sell a line you need a total package deal. Cartoon, video game, movie and great toy line. I'm probably getting off topic but what does everyone think about the total success of the Joe line without any media (movies or cartoons) on the horizon?

[Shin Densetsu]

Originally Posted by Juice

Sometimes I wonder if all of us Joe collectors are screwed. Transformers and Spider-Man have a live action movie along with new animated shows. It seems to me to really sell a line you need a total package deal. Cartoon, video game, movie and great toy line. I'm probably getting off topic but what does everyone think about the total success of the Joe line without any media (movies or cartoons) on the horizon?

Actually you still are on topic, because the lack of a total package probably contributed to the demise of not only sigma 6/8" but also the previous 3-3/4" joe vs cobra figures from 2002+. Its been noted that the marketing campaigns were drastically different a year after the 2002 relaunch. I can't remember what I read years back, but basically what was usually done to gather attention for the brand wasn't done during that time. I am not sure if things changed since, but it is noted in discussions on older joe forums.

From my point of view the 25th anni line isn't that original.

Its meant to be an homage to a classic line that outlasted star wars in the toy aisle. When the 10th anniversary of Sigma 6 rolls around, I don't doubt Hasbro will celebrate it.
2007-08 is basically the year for collectors. The presence of ARAH will never leave, as G1 never leaves the transfandom. There will always be nods to ARAH even when the new themes roll around, possibly in late 08-early 09. However the all new themes, characters, et al won't show up till then. Hasbro has said the anniversary line caters primarily to collectors. The kids will have their time after us, this time around, and some kids like the anniversary figures too.
I can see 8" returning in the near future, possibly next year, but not after Hasbro does heavy evaluations of the overall 8" line since 2005 to see what worked, and what didn't.