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02-27-2020, 08:07 PM | #3281 |
Hisstank.Com General
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Yeah, the first thing that "revived" Transformers was Beast Wars and Beast Machines, a near-complete reinvention of the brand and storyline...and one that was NOT well-received by a lot of the existing/older fans at the time, but managed to become successful in spite of the "TRUKK NOT MUNKY" crowd. (For fairness sake it should be noted that plenty of older fans got into Beast Wars/Machines too, but there was certainly a vocal subset demanding "classic" and decrying the new).
Basically: By ignoring their hardest core fans they ultimately found success again in a way that the previous attempt at relaunch (G2 and Machine Wars) hadn't. After that Transformers chugged along reasonably well through a couple more traditional animated series up until the movies hit, at which point they EXPLODED. It was already a pretty successful "revived" brand before the movies, it just got much, much more successful after. Funny enough a lot of collectors these days tend to forget about/gloss over the "nu-sculpt" era of Joe. But arguably Joe was more successful in overall sales during that time period than it was during the 25th et al...not counting RoC (which was the apex of recent Joe sales numbers from Hasbro's end...but unfortunately not for retailers that bought the product). IIRC Hasbro doubled the amount of stuff they sold for RoC from what they had sold in 25th the year before. Mainly on being able to convince retailers ahead of time that the movie was going to be "the next Transformers" and they wouldn't want to be short on product come the Holiday season like happened with the first movie Transformers toys. Beast Wars found success dispite G1 fans by incorporating G1 elements and because it was a damn good series. Which is why Beast Machines fell off and those figures again peg warmed so Hasbro moved on. I will be the 1st to admit I was one of those truck not Monkey guys until a friend made me watch it about mid way through season two and I absolutely got hooked
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02-27-2020, 08:14 PM | #3282 |
Hisstank.Com General
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Completely false. Many lines are completely sustained by the adult collecting community. MOTU classics has been going strong for how long? even with the change over from Mattel to Super 7 and back again at Mattel and they dont have half of the characters that Joe has, yet fans have bought how many versions of core characters? Neca does it with several types of figures with TMNT being the the most well known. Tmnt also has a whole separate line geared towards kids. TF has a whole market gear toward the adult collector with enough room in it to sustain multiple knock off brands as well. Going down the road of smaller companies like Boss Fight, Marauder and newcomers like Valaverse. Hasbro is just to short sighted to see how much of a goldmine GI Joe could be. Hell Fun Pub did pretty damn well for themselves catering to a small portion of said community and they were paying for licensing on top of it.
People seem to forget how well the 25th anniversary line sold, and What happened when the changed over from a completely 80s vibe into a movie line? It peg warmed enough for major retailers to want to move away from it. Go back and find what characters and designs peg warmed from ROC - Retaliation and compare it with ones that sold in those lines and you will find classics sold much better than most of the newer designed stuff sat around until clearance. |
02-27-2020, 08:18 PM | #3283 |
Hisstank.Com General
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Sorry it wasn't ment as an attack on you or your entire post I ment to edit to just qoute your last line.
Agreed Transformers has a much bigger return than Gi joe but my major point was there is no reason Hasbro can't do a line geared toward the core GI joe audience while building a new one. Transformers didn't become a $400 million money maker over night it took years of reinventing itself for several generations of fans. But all the while never forgot the G1 fans. We have steadily got classics all along the way. From reissues to Masterpiece all while Hasbro was doing BW, Energon, RID, animated, rescue bots etcetc.r |
02-27-2020, 09:03 PM | #3284 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
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We all think of how hard it was to find figures in 2007 when the 25th line was first released in such small quantities, and ignore Joe figures flooded the pegs in 2008 when production increased. The ME version wasn’t strong. Star Wars floods the close out market because it’s produced in quantities to sell $500 million; the 25th/ME line in 2008 flooded close outs despite only being produced in enough volume to hit $30 million. That doesn’t reflect the idea of a very successful or in demand toyline. |
02-27-2020, 09:21 PM | #3285 |
Banned
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Depends. You still need context to evaluate it. If the expectation was $40 million, $30 million wouldn’t be very good. Not to mention, Transformers was a $100 mil brand before the movies and Spy Troops did $80 million five years before, so $30 mil really doesn’t seem very strong.
We all think of how hard it was to find figures in 2007 when the 25th line was first released in such small quantities, and ignore Joe figures flooded the pegs in 2008 when production increased. The ME version wasn’t strong. Star Wars floods the close out market because it’s produced in quantities to sell $500 million; the 25th/ME line in 2008 flooded close outs despite only being produced in enough volume to hit $30 million. That doesn’t reflect the idea of a very successful or in demand toyline. |
02-27-2020, 09:32 PM | #3286 |
Hisstank.Com General
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Depends. You still need context to evaluate it. If the expectation was $40 million, $30 million wouldn’t be very good. Not to mention, Transformers was a $100 mil brand before the movies and Spy Troops did $80 million five years before, so $30 mil really doesn’t seem very strong.
We all think of how hard it was to find figures in 2007 when the 25th line was first released in such small quantities, and ignore Joe figures flooded the pegs in 2008 when production increased. The ME version wasn’t strong. Star Wars floods the close out market because it’s produced in quantities to sell $500 million; the 25th/ME line in 2008 flooded close outs despite only being produced in enough volume to hit $30 million. That doesn’t reflect the idea of a very successful or in demand toyline. Right but didn't spy troops and VvsV get a major push? Didn't it have a movie of sorts backing it? Didn't it get McDonald's toys and all. I was working for TRU at that time and I remember having to stock tons of news paper like flyer freebies to be given away in the figure isle and at every register. They were still also reusing a lot of the oring figures and gearing things to the adult collector at that same time with comic packs two packs of classic troop builders etc. So those numbers were not all from kids buying up GI joe. That is just the nature of the beast the same cam be said for spy troops and VvsV. I distinctly remember the Gi joe vs Cobra figures having to be repackaged with a bonus figure which 9 times out of ten was a O ring repaint just to get them off the shelves.
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02-27-2020, 09:51 PM | #3287 |
Hisstank.Com General
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I think we are all going to have to just agree to disagree and see how well these figures actually sell. But if they don't I doubt anyone will admit its because of the design and will just blame the scale.
Based on sales so far it seems Snake Eyes an Duke seem to have sold the best but its probably just coincidental that the are closer to the classic designs than RB and Scarlett;)
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02-27-2020, 09:55 PM | #3288 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Jun 2009
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I think we are all going to have to just agree to disagree and see how well these figures actually sell. But if they don't I doubt anyone will admit its because of the design and will just blame the scale.
Based on sales so far it seems Snake Eyes an Duke seem to have sold the best but its probably just coincidental that the are closer to the classic designs than RB and Scarlett;) |
02-27-2020, 10:25 PM | #3289 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: May 2012
Location: in a house
Posts: 818
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Quote:
I think we are all going to have to just agree to disagree and see how well these figures actually sell. But if they don't I doubt anyone will admit its because of the design and will just blame the scale.
Based on sales so far it seems Snake Eyes an Duke seem to have sold the best but its probably just coincidental that the are closer to the classic designs than RB and Scarlett;) |
02-27-2020, 10:44 PM | #3290 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Classified
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Machine Wars was released during Beast Wars in 1997, not prior. Machine Wars was an attempt to see if traditional Transformers would take during the Beast Era. It didn't till the Beast Era died down due to Beast Machines not capturing people the same way BW's 3 years did.
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