|
Community Links |
Social Groups |
Pictures & Albums |
Members List |
Search Forums |
Advanced Search |
Go to Page... |
|
Thread Tools |
06-21-2009, 11:32 AM | #61 |
Crimson Nerd
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,578
|
Iron Man and Batman Begins/Dark Knight are relatively false comparisons for "accuracy" anyhow.
Both took a great deal of liberties with the characters and looks and even origins of said characters. But just like some fans want to ignore the similarities and focus solely on the changes in RoC, they'll do the opposite for films that they think support their argument...even if they don't do so nearly as well as folks think. I could give you a laundry list of inaccuracies in all of the films listed as "keeping it the same" (many of which fans have and do still complain about today, even if they liked the movie overall) but it's irrelevant. Peoples' minds on the movie are made up. They're either going to give it a chance, or they're not. Bitching about the changes at this point serves no purpose...the movie is coming out, and it's not going to be changed now. You don't have to support it with your money, and it will succeed or fail regardless. Last edited by Jmacq1; 06-21-2009 at 11:41 AM.. |
06-21-2009, 12:02 PM | #62 |
Aspiring Supervillain
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Hidden Nebula
Posts: 148
|
Quote:
It may have worked and it may not have worked.
But if the idea is to create a new Joe mythos, why go with the old? Why not take the core ideas (which RoC has) and the core personalities (which RoC has for the most part) and create a new mythos for a new generation of fans? Don't the new generation deserve their own Cobra Commander? Why should they be forcefed out CC just because it would make a small percentage of the actual movie going public happy? * * * So yeah, the old CC may have worked, but they would have had to tweak his origins to something that would have worked for a 2 hour movie format, so if you end up doing that.. why not go all the way and make a new version so the new fans have something to grasp as theirs? Why should they be forcefed our Joes? Don't they deserve their own? I am so sick of Hollywood trying to forcefeed me "classic" versions of creaky old characters. I mean, look at what they've forced on us since last summer. Batman? Bruce Wayne sees his parents killed and dresses like a bat to fight crime? God, that is sooo 1939. I'm not my granddad. Iron Man? Look, if I want to see Tony Stark fly around in red and gold armor, I'll read the comic book, thank you very much. If I go see an Iron Man movie, I want to see something completely new and different. Like a flying werewolf from Mars who dispenses justice in the Old West. Now that's what I call an Iron Man movie! And don't even get me started on that Star Trek catastrophe. You know who's the worst? James Bond. He's been in what, 22 movies over 45 years? And he's still an alcoholic, womanizing, British spy who kills people. Puh-leeze. Can we finally move past that? It's obvious nobody wants to see tired old versions of characters who've been around for decades and have generations of fans. People want new, unrecognizable versions they can "grasp" as theirs. That's why all these movies bombed. The market has spoken. Quote:
And actually, I don't think the vintage CC would translate as well to the big screen. His Cobra-La origin, thank god they didn't go that route, that would have been the absolute worst thing they could do. His "used car salesman becomes terrorist leader" origin? uhm.. yeah... That wouldn't work. That just wouldn't translate well and there's no way to actually get the depth of it into a movie and still have time for anything else.
It's a 2 hour movie. You have a limited time to tell the plot of the movie and as much character back story as you can. There's no way you can make the "used car salesman" origin work without the entire movie being devoted to that aspect. It would take too long to tell right and to make it work without it coming out as stupid. I remember watching "Terminator" for the first (and only!) time. It just droned on and on about the backstory. Blablabla time travel, blablabla robots, blablabla savior of mankind. I kept yelling at the TV, "Get on with it!" Ruined the whole movie for me. Quote:
Most of the elements that made the Joe comic what it was, they're there in RoC. They're in differnet colors but it's still the same fashion elements. Like Shogi has said, the same elements are there, just in a different look.
The look of the character? It's outdated. I'm sorry, but it is. It's a pure '80s villian look. It just doesn't work anymore. I thought seeing it on the shelves with the 25th stuff it didnt work. Resolute looks odd as well. It's a more updated look but it's still dated. Thank you. We all know that these people couldn't all have read a script that's been widely available online for months. It's just not possible. I'm glad somebody finally had the courage to call these people out.
__________________
atomicgadfly.com Last edited by Atomic Gadfly; 06-21-2009 at 12:10 PM.. |
06-21-2009, 12:36 PM | #63 |
Aspiring Supervillain
Join Date: May 2009
Location: The Hidden Nebula
Posts: 148
|
Quote:
Iron Man and Batman Begins/Dark Knight are relatively false comparisons for "accuracy" anyhow.
Both took a great deal of liberties with the characters and looks and even origins of said characters. But just like some fans want to ignore the similarities and focus solely on the changes in RoC, they'll do the opposite for films that they think support their argument...even if they don't do so nearly as well as folks think. I could give you a laundry list of inaccuracies in all of the films listed as "keeping it the same" (many of which fans have and do still complain about today, even if they liked the movie overall) but it's irrelevant. Peoples' minds on the movie are made up. They're either going to give it a chance, or they're not. Bitching about the changes at this point serves no purpose...the movie is coming out, and it's not going to be changed now. You don't have to support it with your money, and it will succeed or fail regardless. (1) Addition of new character, Rachel Dawes, as childhood friend/potential love interest. (2) Changes to origin story: Waynes killed outside opera house, not movie theatre; Joe Chill captured instantly; Bruce Wayne doesn't vow on his parents' grave to become a crimefighter, but grows up angry and directionless; Wayne plots to kill Chill, but mobsters kill him first; after confrontations with Dawes and local mob boss, Wayne travels the world, still directionless; Wayne ends up in Chinese (?) prison; Wayne trains with Ra's al Ghul, begins to formulate plan to fight crime in Gotham; Wayne returns to Gotham. (3) Commissioner Loeb changed from corrupt old white man to a younger, black man, and apparently an honest cop. (4) Flass changed from tall, crew-cutted former Green Beret to fat, bearded slob. (5) Lucius Fox has expanded role, knows Wayne's dual identity, provides him with gadgets and technical support. (6) Relationship between Wayne and Alfred is reimagined - Alfred is more of a mentor and partner than a servant. (7) Batman wears elaborate body armor, rather than grey tights. (8) Batman's equipment cannibalized from unused military prototypes, rather than built by hand in his cave. (9) Ra's al Ghul reimagined - stripped of supernatural elements found in comics. (10) The Scarecrow changed from middle-aged college professor to creepy director of Arkham Asylum. (11) Arkham Asylum relocated to "the Narrows," an island slum near Gotham. (12) Gotham looks strangely like Chicago! (13) Harvey Dent is romantically involved with Dawes, not a woman named Gilda or Grace. (14) Dent is scarred after an explosion, not by having acid thrown in his face in a courtroom. (15) The Joker has a scarred face and wears makeup; his skin was not bleached when he fell into a vat of chemicals. Did I miss anything? I'm sure I did. I'm a huge Batman fan - much more of a Bat-fan than a Joe fan. And I don't have a problem with a single one of those changes. The filmmakers made some choices that I wouldn't have made, myself, if I were writing the script. But their modifications served the purpose of telling a great story. And in some cases, the changes were improvements on the source material. Now here's the crucial part. Despite all the tweaking, "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight" were still great Batman movies. (And not just great Batman movies, but great movies, period.) If the filmmakers changed some of the cosmetic details of the Batman mythos, they remained true to the essence and spirit of the character. You can make similar arguments about the deviations from the source material in "Spider-Man" and "Iron Man." You cannot make that argument about ROC.
__________________
atomicgadfly.com |
06-21-2009, 12:48 PM | #64 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
|
Quote:
Now here's the crucial part. Despite all the tweaking, "Batman Begins" and "The Dark Knight" were still great Batman movies. (And not just great Batman movies, but great movies, period.) If the filmmakers changed some of the cosmetic details of the Batman mythos, they remained true to the essence and spirit of the character. You can make similar arguments about the deviations from the source material in "Spider-Man" and "Iron Man." You cannot make that argument about ROC.
Why not? What about RoC is against the core essence and spirit of G.I. Joe? I have yet to see a single thing that isn't Joe in some way or form.
__________________
Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
06-21-2009, 01:00 PM | #65 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
|
Quote:
Finally! Some sanity comes to this thread!
I am so sick of Hollywood trying to forcefeed me "classic" versions of creaky old characters. I mean, look at what they've forced on us since last summer. Batman? Bruce Wayne sees his parents killed and dresses like a bat to fight crime? God, that is sooo 1939. I'm not my granddad. Iron Man? Look, if I want to see Tony Stark fly around in red and gold armor, I'll read the comic book, thank you very much. If I go see an Iron Man movie, I want to see something completely new and different. Like a flying werewolf from Mars who dispenses justice in the Old West. Now that's what I call an Iron Man movie! And don't even get me started on that Star Trek catastrophe. You know who's the worst? James Bond. He's been in what, 22 movies over 45 years? And he's still an alcoholic, womanizing, British spy who kills people. Puh-leeze. Can we finally move past that? It's obvious nobody wants to see tired old versions of characters who've been around for decades and have generations of fans. People want new, unrecognizable versions they can "grasp" as theirs. That's why all these movies bombed. The market has spoken. Exactly! You can't delve into a character's backstory and motivations in a movie. This isn't a Tolstoy novel! Nobody has the patience for character development or human drama - especially not in a movie that has shooting and explosions in it. That's why those "Godfather" movies were such critical and commercial disasters. I remember watching "Terminator" for the first (and only!) time. It just droned on and on about the backstory. Blablabla time travel, blablabla robots, blablabla savior of mankind. I kept yelling at the TV, "Get on with it!" Ruined the whole movie for me. You're right. A guy wearing a customized officer's uniform is sooo '80s. You couldn't turn on an episode of "Miami Vice" or "Hunter" back then without seeing villains dressed like Cobra Commander. It was really kind of embarrassing. The new look is much better. There's nothing '80s about looking like an "Inspector Gadget" villain! Thank you. We all know that these people couldn't all have read a script that's been widely available online for months. It's just not possible. I'm glad somebody finally had the courage to call these people out. Unlike Iron Man, Batman, X-Men or Hulk there wasn't a continuous ongoing presence of G.I. Joe. Hell, fans here stop the Joe line at around 1987 and some don't even consider the VvV or Spy Troops stuff as G.I. Joe. In that light, Joe hasn't been around for fans to latch onto for years. It's like BSG. The show hadn't been around in years. They could have stuck very close to the original, but why? The new generation of sci-fi fans hadn't ever seen the original BSG, so why make something that might not appeal to them and would only appeal to a very small amount of hardcore fans? So they went and created something that was new and appealed to the new fans and appealed to some of the old. That's what happened with RoC. There's nothing wrong with that. Old school Joe fans are a small amount of people. We'll probably be 10% of the movie going public, if that. Why wouldn't they want to do something that appeals to this new generation more? The movie is for the new generation, it's not for us. (yeah, sales of the 25th and ME stuff was good, but it's kind of easy to get that with troop building, if 1 person buys 20 of something..) Am I happy with some of the stuff in RoC? No, I'm not. I'd love for things to be closer. I think a Resolute vibe might have worked but then it might not have. I'm don't work in the movie industry, I'm not a screenwriter, I don't do market research, I don't do anything that a movie studio does in determining what direction to take a property. So I don't think I have a view (and really, no one here does either) on what would and wouldn't work in a 2009 movie. I can say that I think some things would and wouldn't, just like everyone here can, but in the end there's only one judge of what will and won't work and that's the movie sales. And for that we'll have to wait until August. As for the script, it's easy to say "I've seen it" when you're on the 'net. But where's the proof that the script people have seen, or reportedly seen, is the final one?
__________________
Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
06-21-2009, 01:47 PM | #66 |
Crimson Nerd
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,578
|
The "essence" and "spirit" of G.I. Joe? Please. Ask 10 people and you'll get 10 different answers.
For some, it's as simple as "A High-tech counter-terrorist force named G.I. Joe battles a high-tech terrorists called Cobra." There's the "essence and spirit" of G.I. Joe rolled into one sentence. Ascribing any other "higher purpose" to it is putting your own spin on it that was really never there to begin with. The basic purpose of G.I. Joe in all its' forms has been to sell toys for Hasbro. As for the cosmetics: Snake-Eyes: Instantly Recognizable. Storm-Shadow: Instantly Recognizable. Scarlett: Instantly Recognizable. Baroness: Instantly Recognizable. Destro: Once the mask comes on (and it will), instantly recognizable. |
06-21-2009, 04:12 PM | #67 |
VALKYRIE
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Over the rainbow where your mom is at son
Posts: 23,515
|
Quote:
Iron Man and Batman Begins/Dark Knight are relatively false comparisons for "accuracy" anyhow.
Both took a great deal of liberties with the characters and looks and even origins of said characters. But just like some fans want to ignore the similarities and focus solely on the changes in RoC, they'll do the opposite for films that they think support their argument...even if they don't do so nearly as well as folks think. I could give you a laundry list of inaccuracies in all of the films listed as "keeping it the same" (many of which fans have and do still complain about today, even if they liked the movie overall) but it's irrelevant. Peoples' minds on the movie are made up. They're either going to give it a chance, or they're not. Bitching about the changes at this point serves no purpose...the movie is coming out, and it's not going to be changed now. You don't have to support it with your money, and it will succeed or fail regardless. |
06-21-2009, 04:30 PM | #68 |
VALKYRIE
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Over the rainbow where your mom is at son
Posts: 23,515
|
Quote:
Oh and he's my response,which I and others made, on keeping looks and origins more closely related to the source material...Iron Man,Spiderman,Hellboy,Hulk,Batman Begins,Darkknight.
If you're going to bring up how close those other movies are to the source material, take into account everything, not just selective tidbits like Tony Stark being an arms dealer. So what, Destro is an arms dealer in ROC, yeah that must be a big difference from what he is in the comic...oh wait..it isn't. All of the movies you listed have just as much differences from the source material as ROC does from ARAH. |
06-21-2009, 04:35 PM | #69 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
|
Hellboy - Where in the comics is Liz Sherman a hottie like Selma Blair and that young? And where do Liz and Hellboy hook up? I know I've missed a couple of Hellboy comics but I'm pretty sure I didn't miss that part.
Johann doesn't work with Hellboy in the comics, he joins the BPRD after Hellboy has quit. My roommate is watching Spider-Man 3 now: The Sandman killed Uncle Ben in the comics? Eddie Brock dated Gwen Stacy? That doesn't even get into account the whole Mary Jane before Gwen thing. If Sam Raimi had wanted to be faithful to the comics, he would have had Mary Jane as a background character and kept Kirsten Dunst as a blond and had her play Gwen Stacy from the beginning. But you know why they didn't? Because the majority of the current Spider-Man fanbase had no clue who Gwen Stacy was, and if they did, she had no emotional ties for them. So the movie people went with Mary Jane. As for Gwen in Spider-Man 3, come on.. that character could have been named Lucy Stacy and the part would have still been the same. The name Gwen Stacy was used just as an "easter egg" to the fans.
__________________
Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ Last edited by Troynos; 06-21-2009 at 04:39 PM.. |
06-21-2009, 04:44 PM | #70 |
VALKYRIE
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Over the rainbow where your mom is at son
Posts: 23,515
|
Quote:
The Sandman killed Uncle Ben in the comics? Eddie Brock dated Gwen Stacy? That doesn't even get into account the whole Mary Jane before Gwen thing.
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Why is Hollywood so shallow? | Skyhawk | General Discussion | 58 | 06-19-2009 07:45 PM |
The ultimate bad boy of hollywood poll | Tankster | General Discussion | 45 | 04-16-2009 07:20 AM |
Hollywood hasn't grown up, why should we---? | Snake Eyes-Joe Ninja | G.I. Joe Live Action Movie | 13 | 07-25-2008 09:30 PM |
Is Hollywood going too young? | Echo7Solo | G.I. Joe Live Action Movie | 25 | 01-24-2008 08:32 PM |
|
|
Recent Off Topic Threads |
Marvel Universe 3.75" figures |
Hisstank Late Night thread... |
What song are you listening to? |
G.I. Joe March Madness 2024 Championship Battle Armor... |
Last Movie You Watched? |