[Shin Densetsu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkeywrench

I bet they will have Duke and Scralett be a thing and not SE. Just a hunch.

That would suck. The cartoon, while respected out of nostalgia, and possibly the first introduction many fans had to joe, is not the best incarnation to base the movie on. Not to mention, Snake Eyes plight will be more meaningful and heroic once the audience realizes what he exactly did for Scarlett. Nothing Duke ever did could ever match that, even in the cartoon. If we have to have a love triangle, make it Flint vs a greenshirt over Lady Jaye, kind of like Han Solo going for Leia but envious of Luke. There was never anything dramatic about Duke going for Scarlett in the cartoon, compared to what Snake Eyes did for her in the comic.

[gunslingercbr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obiwanjacoby

Such as. . .? C'mon help us out and don't leave us hangin'.



Look, normally I'd totally agree with you. . .if it weren't for the fact that you're just drawing this conclusion from nothing but an "appeal to motive" fallacy.

And it's not your usual habit to argue like that. :confused:

All we got off the collective tops of our heads is Jet-Li and Ray Park. It's like Shin said--it's just a guy doing flips in a mask & bodysuit.

The majority of us aren't up with the hottest in movie martial-arts right now. Probably because it's all done now with wires and CGI anyway.

And Gun, I know you think the "term" fanboy is a pejorative. . .but look where you are dude.

-PJ

no, I am a fanboy as well. anything I say about our fandom applies to me as well.

who do I want as SE's? Barry Pepper.

this isn't going to be a martial arts movie, and any actor can be trained well enough to do the role justice. who fought Ray Park in TPM for crying out lous -- Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson -- not the most athletic guys in the world.

my point was just that Ray Park isn't the only person in the world who can execute stunts, and he is only thrown around by the fandom because he is just someone they know because of his other genre work.

[Obiwanjacoby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shin Densetsu

If we have to have a love triangle, make it Flint vs a greenshirt over Lady Jaye,

Worked with Lt. Gorky. That was actually a fun little subplot.

-PJ

[Obiwanjacoby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslingercbr

who do I want as SE's? Barry Pepper.

Good one. He actually looks a lot like Larry Hama's catalog reference pic for Snake Eyes before he was all burnt up.

-PJ

[Compulsive Collector]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslingercbr

my point was just that Ray Park isn't the only person in the world who can execute stunts, and he is only thrown around by the fandom because he is just someone they know because of his other genre work.

Your "point" completely misses a crucial element of Hollywood. Barry Pepper, or any other known actor, isn't likely to accet a role that has him running around in a mask and never getting to speak. Ray Park, on the other hand, makes his living on just that kind of role. Park makes sense from a realistic perspective and understanding of the industry.

Having said that, his portrayal of Toad, while not the worst thing about X-Men, wasn't at all good. With Snake-Eyes, however, he wouldn't have to speak, so that helps his case. I don't care one bit for a connection to any other franchise, and I don't think many other people do, either. I'd just like to see someone capable cast in the role, whether it's Park or some unknown, the latter of which is more likely.

[OUTBACK]

well said Compulsive!

thank you for finally putting it how i always wanted to put it in text.

[gunslingercbr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Compulsive Collector

Your "point" completely misses a crucial element of Hollywood. Barry Pepper, or any other known actor, isn't likely to accet a role that has him running around in a mask and never getting to speak. Ray Park, on the other hand, makes his living on just that kind of role. Park makes sense from a realistic perspective and understanding of the industry.

Having said that, his portrayal of Toad, while not the worst thing about X-Men, wasn't at all good. With Snake-Eyes, however, he wouldn't have to speak, so that helps his case. I don't care one bit for a connection to any other franchise, and I don't think many other people do, either. I'd just like to see someone capable cast in the role, whether it's Park or some unknown, the latter of which is more likely.

Pepper isn't all that well known, and I hope that SE's spends some good amount of time on screen without his mask, requiring an actor who looks like SE's to play the part.

Ray Park is just an arbitrary stunt man that is only known because of his work in Star Wars and X Men -- two genre movies. what a coincidence that fans of those tend to also be fans of Joe, and want an actor who they know because of his other genre work to play another character with absolutely no similarities to the other two other than he jumps a lot. Ray Park has nothing in common with Snake Eyes other than he is a genre character and Ray Park has experience playing other genre characters. not to sound argumentative, but if his other work in genre movies isn't what is fueling the desire to see him as SE's, than I don't see what is, because nothing about Ray Park screams SE's IMO.

is this really what we think of SE's?

[Compulsive Collector]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslingercbr

Pepper isn't all that well known

Sorry, but he's too well known to want a role like this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslingercbr

and I hope that SE's spends some good amount of time on screen without his mask, requiring an actor who looks like SE's to play the part.

I wouldn't hold my breath for much of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslingercbr

Ray Park is just an arbitrary stunt man that is only known because of his work in Star Wars and X Men -- two genre movies.

Well, of course those are the roles for which he is most known, as they were his first two roles. That pretty much goes without saying.

And not for nothing, but I personally think of him as the Hessian in Sleepy Hollow before Toad. The most obvious aspect of the idea that you're missing is that one person could portray Snake-Eyes outside of his costume, and another actor could fill the role prior to his being disfigured. Just ask Christopher Walken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslingercbr

what a coincidence that fans of those tend to also be fans of Joe, and want an actor who they know because of his other genre work to play another character with absolutely no similarities to the other two other than he jumps a lot.

One character doesn't need to have similarities to another for the same performer to fill both roles. People are thinking of him because of his stunt work. He's capable of putting on a show, and that's what most fans want, to be entertained.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslingercbr

Ray Park has nothing in common with Snake Eyes other than he is a genre character and Ray Park has experience playing other genre characters. not to sound argumentative, but if his other work in genre movies isn't what is fueling the desire to see him as SE's, than I don't see what is, because nothing about Ray Park screams SE's IMO.

I can't speak for anyone else, but the first reason for wanting him that would come to my mind is his physical ability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslingercbr

is this really what we think of SE's?

I think of a ninja in a black mask. I'm really not terribly concerned with whether or not the actor looks exactly like the artwork in the comic books. A little hair dye can make it close enough.

On the other hand, I'm not advocating the idea of Ray Park. As long as the film turns out to be good, I don't care if you play Snake-Eyes, as long as you can pull it off well. But honestly, being so opposed to the idea just because he was in STAR WARS is really no different than wanting him in the role for that reason alone. They're opposite sides of the exact same coin.

[gunslingercbr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Compulsive Collector

On the other hand, I'm not advocating the idea of Ray Park. As long as the film turns out to be good, I don't care if you play Snake-Eyes, as long as you can pull it off well. But honestly, being so opposed to the idea just because he was in STAR WARS is really no different than wanting him in the role for that reason alone. They're opposite sides of the exact same coin.

you're right, but the idea that he is perfect for the role is what I am debating. he is no more perfect than tons of other stunt men, so why has he been singled out as the person who SHOULD play him, as if he is the only person and a perfect choice, when he is simply one of many that can get the job done. what you are arguing is not what my original post was in relation to -- the idea that he should ABSOLUTELY be SE's. such a desire to see him has to encompass far more than his abilities, and probably teeters on the fanboy aspect of him because he was Darth 31/2 minutes of screen time. Fanboys love him because he was one of the coolest looking SW's characters of all time and want to see more of him based on that.

[Compulsive Collector]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunslingercbr

you're right, but the idea that he is perfect for the role is what I am debating. he is no more perfect than tons of other stunt men, so why has he been singled out as the person who SHOULD play him, as if he is the only person and a perfect choice, when he is simply one of many that can get the job done. what you are arguing is not what my original post was in relation to -- the idea that he should ABSOLUTELY be SE's. such a desire to see him has to encompass far more than his abilities, and probably teeters on the fanboy aspect of him because he was Darth 31/2 minutes of screen time. Fanboys love him because he was one of the coolest looking SW's characters of all time and want to see more of him based on that.

Well, one thing that does separate him from other stunt performers is that he actually has experience, albeit limited, portraying characters in more than just action scenes. That distinguishes him from others with similar physical skill. If anything, he probably gets mentioned first because he's the only actor with which those who advocate his inclusion are even familiar.

Personally, I think Darth Maul was a chump of a character. That's not a knock on Park himself, but rather on the outcome of that particular film.