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04-15-2008, 11:07 PM | #111 |
Crimson Guard
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Sorry for the misunderstanding, but i meant the French as in French Government. And secondly, Amaury Sanderson was American, i believe, as well. Snake-Eyes was American, and i believe Storm Shadow was Japanese-American, born here. Hollywood is anti-American, that is a fact nobody can deny.
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04-15-2008, 11:37 PM | #112 |
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Hollywood is exteremly liberal, and, while that is NOT A PROBLEM IN ANY WAY, with the current goverment being mainly conservative, it creates some friction. However, THIS THREAD IS NOT, NOR EVER HAS BEEN, ABOUT NAGGING ON OTHER COUNTRIES. IT IS ABOUT DISCUSSING THE FILM, AND YES, I ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS HERE AND THERE. IT HAS NOT BEEN SHUT DOWN BY MODS AS IT IS RESPECTFUL AND HAS NOT GIVEN AWAY TOO MUCH INFO ON THE MOVIE. RESPECTIVELY, PLEASE DO NOT DELVE INTO ANTI OR PRO GOVERMENT RANTS.
I'd rather not have this shutdown. |
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04-16-2008, 12:03 AM | #113 |
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Amaury Sanderson was american...it was an alias used by Zartan. he ran away from a foster home...drifted around the us...into europe...spent alot of time in france...in their military ( AFTER joining the US military earlier in his life ). DDP goes into pretty good detail about it. as far as things against the French Government? ( and i'm glad you seperated the French Govt. from the people ) 1.) after the fall of the french government in 1940, and the rise of the United States following WWII, france ( really starting in 1958 with DeGaulle ) began to distance itself from NATO, and occasionally siding with PRO-Soviet governments in Third World nations in order to maximize economic benefits for France. 2.) same time frame...fearing American domination of Western Governments, France distances itself when possible from the united states, often rallying the benelux countries, germany and italy as oppisition to American goals. ( http://atimes.com/c-asia/BC07Ag02.html ) 3.) French opposition to the Iraq War...understandable, since there is AMERICAN opposition...but something France had in place that Americans did NOT: 22.5% of ALL trade goods imported to Saddam's Iraq, French made...$1.5 billion worth...some of it was military aid: An initial accounting by the Pentagon in the months after the fall of Baghdad revealed that Saddam covertly acquired between 650,000 and 1 million tons of conventional weapons from foreign sources. The main suppliers were Russia, China and France. By contrast, the U.S. arsenal is between 1.6 million and 1.8 million tons. As of last year ( 04 ), Iraq owed France an estimated $4 billion for arms and infrastructure projects, according to French government estimates. U.S. officials thought this massive debt was one reason France opposed a military operation to oust Saddam. The fact that illegal deals continued even as war loomed indicated France viewed Saddam's regime as a future source of income. so, basically, our ALLY, France, has worked to help The Soviet Union DURING the Cold War, and Saddam's Iraq leading up to the Iraq war ( '03 ). i can see where fans of "A Real American Hero" since '82 would be upset with the most famous, popular, and / or beloved GI Joe being made a French Soldier. as for Hollywood, that is opinion. i happen to agree with the poster's oppinion that most of what we get from hollywood is ANTI military. i'm sick of seeing Janene Garafalo griping about Marines MURDERING innocents...( where's she been at since the facts of the case have come in and exonerrated the accused marines ? ) BUT, can you name some "pro U.S. Military" movies produced in the last 5 years? can you name some ANTI U.S. Military movies? Lions for Lambs...dud...the one with Tatum and the CC Kid...how did it do / will it do? that's without even looking. |
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04-16-2008, 12:39 AM | #114 |
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If you guys want to argue politics, take it to PM. Keep this script review and discussion on topic.
A lot of things may change for the movie, and it was said last year that misinformation would be leaked purposefully. Chances are, the movie we see next year will differ than the one we are reading about now. The exact same thing happened to the Transformers movie. I read the script reviews a long time before release, the revised draft reviews, the comic adaptation before the movie, and even the latter, which was the closest to replicating the movie, was still different from how the movie actually turned out. As for Snake Eyes, I could care less if he was french or not, it doesn't matter, it was never hinted at it in the comic, all we knew was that he was white. For the movie, I think its best that his nationality is kept open for the audience to guess, as it adds to his mysteriousness. Honestly, the main thing I am worried about is Storm Shadow's characterization. Ninja assassins and evil ninjas are all part of hollywood lore. Storm Shadow is different, and as such, should be written differently. Sure the audience that knew of gijoe from the past will expect a ninja clad in white who will oppose Snake Eyes, but he is a deep character, there is much more to Storm Shadow than a rivalry with the top joe ninja. Much more than just a yin to his yang. This is a guy who had to live a lie to seek the truth. Did Snake Eyes do that? Did anyone on the joe team do that? Did any of the initial Cobras? Hell no! Redemption has not been easy for the guy, and thats vital to his character, and portrayal. |
04-16-2008, 01:41 AM | #115 |
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actually, they were pretty specific about it ( snake eyes nationality ) in the comic, however, as ALL the GI Joes were AMERICAN citizens, it wasn't an everyday thing, therefore not an issue commonly dealt with.
scarlett mentioning him being your typical small town guy...all the way to him talking about fighting for HIS country, the US in his letter to the Wade Collins' son. his future apprentice. it's very specific all throughout the original marvel continuity, and DDP built on it. the politics was mentioned to answer a specific question and it gave specific answers. there are plenty of americans with some Anti - French feelings ( not harsh ones, mind you ). those fans could be upset about SE being portrayed as French in this version...and could see it as a slap in the face. while i don't see it as the latter, the fact that he's french bothers me...as does Storm Shadow being a Korean ninja in a Vietnamese clan. the Arashikage's were japanese and Tommy Arashikage is clearly stated in GI Joe #27 ( marvel ) as being Japanes - AMERICAN. he was in vietnam fighting for HIS country as was Snake Eyes. i can take a hint however...i'll lay off of politics, but you mods are surpressing a strong sentiment here. |
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04-16-2008, 01:48 AM | #116 |
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Shin, you are more than welcome to view Storm Shadow as an important and complex character, as he is; but I must point out, so is Snake Eyes. Just as you would want SS to remain true to his origin, so do we pining for an American SE.
And of course SE is American. Every member of Joe with the exception of Big Ben and Diana, and perhaps a couple of others that I forget, is American. Snake Eyes is explicitly described as "an all-American boy" and "that goofy kid down the lane" by Scarlett, and he served with an American LRRP. I have no problem with Snake Eyes being of French dissent, but just as you want Storm Shadow to be an anti-hero and complex, I want my bad-ass American ninja poster boy to be just that; a bad-ass AMERICAN ninja poster-boy. So, respectfully sir, I think we should both agree that there are what we, as individuals, believe to be core characteristics of our favorite Joes that should remain intact in a film interpretation, askew. However, I would not be surprised if this was indeed a false script, and, honestly, I would be over joyed. However, I can only comment on that which I possess. |
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04-16-2008, 01:50 AM | #117 |
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I don't think they have a problem with our displeasure with a French Snake Eyes, but the political conversations that have included some inflamitary remarks.
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04-16-2008, 02:26 AM | #118 |
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Crimson Guard 51, you put your thoughts together well. I admire how you put things, even though i am not as articulate...i can understand completely and i agree with you on all your points. It's like your reading my mind and typing it in the forum. Thanks for that.
We might have got "off topic" a bit, but i think politics have a part in this film, in a way, it is based loosely on military and personal conflict. People's origins play an important role on the direction of their path in life, thus the direction of the movie. The whole point is to delve dep into the life of the character's and the reason why things are so. It's not just a shoot'em up flick with great special-FX and tons of CGI, there's a story(s) to be told here. Maybe I'm not making much sense, but i feel this thread should continue because this valid exchange of views is healthy and needed to express our ideas and opinions on something somewhat important to those of us who care deeply about this great toy line. SS Last edited by STORM SHADOW; 04-16-2008 at 02:29 AM.. |
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04-16-2008, 02:33 AM | #119 |
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If Snake Eyes is your favorite character, I can understand you wanting him to be portrayed right. See to me, I think he will, in my opinion, there is less chance of screwing him up than Storm Shadow. Snake Eyes is always known as the guy that will save you against the odds, and kind of an unsung hero, he will do whats right without expecting recognition.
Where as Storm Shadow, depending on who you talk to, a lot remember him as the evil Cobra ninja from the cartoon. Larry Hama knows otherwise, because he created him. Does Hollywood? We as fans, know he is the tragic hero who got shafted pretty bad, and had to pretend he was evil, got brainwashed into being evil, then finally broke free years later. While he has never been a true evil character at heart, he is predominantly remembered as a Cobra. Even amongst comic fans, there is a division amongst who prefers him as an evil antagonist, and those like me who prefer him with the joes since it makes logical sense. With Snake Eyes we all know he will be portrayed as the super bad ass dues ex machina ninja commando, we just worry how they will portray his mannerisms and background. With Storm Shadow, we will either get a well fleshed out tragic hero, or another hollywood ninja, this time clad in white, with no substance other than opposing the main character and giving the team a hard time. |
04-16-2008, 08:23 PM | #120 |
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i haven't said ANYTHING negative about the french, but i did point out HISTORICAL incidents where their government's interest conflicted with ours. that's all. |
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