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08-23-2009, 05:04 PM | #211 |
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No matter how crappy a movie it is (and its high on the crap meter) its going to sell toys, lots of toys and other crap merch.
When anyone here finds the % of shared profit from toy/merch sales we can have a good discussion.
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08-23-2009, 05:05 PM | #212 |
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Incorrect as far as what is a bigger success story. Troy, you are going to have to just admit that this movie failed at the box office. You cant do some Jedi-Bill-O'Reilly mind trick and try to spin it........lol. Just some good natured ribbing.......lol.
Seriously, the movie has not even made a profit yet and its dropping in the box office attendance. D9 is a success...... a movie is not measured solely in terms of how much it made at the box office as it is determined how much of a profit it makes once budget has been taken out. (MI3 is a perfect example of that) All movie (for the lack of a better word) pundits would agree. Let me breakdown the numbers: Movie - Budget - Box office take - After the theaters get their cut - profit ROC - 170 million - 223 million - 167 million - (-)3 million D9 - 30 million- 81 million - 61 Million - (+)30 million So ROC would need to double its budget and bring in an additional 340 million more to be on the same level. That is not going to happen ever. Now in terms of Spin control....yes Roc can boast the numbers to the people that can care less about production budgets and just look at raw numbers but those that are in the know....... know! But that doors swings both ways. Studios are not happy when there films do not bring in at least its budget in domestic sales. ROC did not and a lot of pundits will deem this a failure. Heck it would need to bring in another 50 million for that....It hasn't even caught up to Terminator Salvation if that tells you anything and its at number 16 for the year. Think of it this way, it might and I say MIGHT.......... catch up to Paul Bart mall cop..... but that is with a lot of wishing. there is two different types of financial factors...gross and net. Gross wise, ROC has D9 beaten to a pulp. more people have gone to see it, and more people were interested in it. ROC has grossed more money, you can't dispute that. no matter what world you live on, grossing $225 million is better than grossing $50 million. and had ROC cost less, it would be a better success. but how much it cost can be removed from the equation to judge it' success in generating an audience, and ROC generated a large audience, just not proportionately sound to its cost. net wise, D9 is more successful financially because it had made more profit. |
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08-23-2009, 05:08 PM | #213 |
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I would love to see a chart from Hasbro of toy sales of the RoC stuff that was out pre-movie and post movie. Would be interesting to see what kind of a difference it had on the sales with kids actually going to the movie and watching it. I've said it before, RoC's total success cannot be measured in just movie sales alone.
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08-23-2009, 05:20 PM | #214 |
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Did ya miss the part where I said that D9 was a financial success?
The people that know, know which was a bigger success. And Joe Average? Which do you think he'd say was bigger? I don't think RoC was the success it could have been, I enjoyed it and I'll probably be seeing it again. When CNN or USA Today or whichever paper runs the top 10 movies of the week with totals made, I don't believe it gives production budget, so to Joe Average which one would come across as the bigger success? Not everyone surfs the internet and becomes someone in the know, so to speak. Alot of the times, I use my mother as an example. She doesn't surf the internet, so if she just looked at the numbers she'd call RoC the bigger success. It's along the lines of the old gauge of how popular Star Wars is, not really popular, but how well known. Ask a random guy on the street corner who Chewbacca is and they'd know, ask 'em who Snake-Eyes is and before RoC they wouldn't know, now there's a better chance, ask 'em who a character from D9 is and would they know? The average person isn't someone in the know. We are talking about success and what Joe average would know or not know concerning Box Office numbers. Here is my take... I don't think Joe average would know either way what was more successful, Why? Cause they were both in and out in a few weeks leaving little to no impact. Hell the trailer for Avatar is getting more buzz around the water coolers. People are not talking about ROC as that film seems to have exited as fast as it entered. I don't think Joe average could tell you without looking it up what their numbers was or who did better, ROC or D9....... that's my honest opinion. Using your mother as an example you hit the nail on the head, as you stated she would have to look at the number and I am going to venture to say she is an intelligent woman and can break the numbers down pretty fast and surmise which film is the bigger hit. Simple math. Or she will read it in People, Entertainment Weekly or USA Today when they do their yearly success stories.... which will clearly put D9 over ROC. Also what do you mean when you say "I don't think RoC was the success it could have been" you seem like a level headed guy so how could you have any doubt that it could have been more of a success? Also, I don't know what world you lived on that Star wars was not popular.....LOL. Hell even when there was not a movie out it was pretty damn well known and popular. It wasn't always trendy to be a Star Wars fan........but that's another topic all together. One last thing, The average Joe on the street still could not tell you who Snake-Eyes his.....maybe Duke.... |
08-23-2009, 05:34 PM | #215 |
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which movie has been seen by more people? ROC.
there is two different types of financial factors...gross and net. Gross wise, ROC has D9 beaten to a pulp. more people have gone to see it, and more people were interested in it. ROC has grossed more money, you can't dispute that. no matter what world you live on, grossing $225 million is better than grossing $50 million. and had ROC cost less, it would be a better success. but how much it cost can be removed from the equation to judge it' success in generating an audience, and ROC generated a large audience, just not proportionately sound to its cost. net wise, D9 is more successful financially because it had made more profit. Well I believe we are talking about just straight up profit. No factoring in toy sales, DVD sales, advertisement...... Just what they made from the movie after the theaters get their cut. As far as who has seen what more is irrelevant to what I am talking about and even if we were talking about that I would agree with you. The numbers support that. So back on track, as far as ROC costing less, well that's just silly.........cause it didn't cost less. Talking about the coudla, shoulda, woulda's is moot! But for the sake of argument If everything costs (clothes, cars, TV, DVD's, etc) less to make and you still sell it at its price point of course it stands to make a bigger profit! Again not disputing that. So are you telling me that if a movie that cost 230 million dollars and made only 225 million it would be a success over a movie that cost 30 million dollars and made 40 million dollars? Let me ask you Gun and Troy....... You both are tasked with green lighting a sequel to either ROC or D9. You cannot factor anything other than profit on ticket sales...... again no toys, books, lunchboxes, etc. you get the point. There will be no change in cast, director, art, Special effects. Don't factor in anything but the numbers. The budget for both films is going to be the exact same which film do you green-light and why? |
08-23-2009, 05:36 PM | #216 |
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True.
I would love to see a chart from Hasbro of toy sales of the RoC stuff that was out pre-movie and post movie. Would be interesting to see what kind of a difference it had on the sales with kids actually going to the movie and watching it. I've said it before, RoC's total success cannot be measured in just movie sales alone. |
08-23-2009, 05:38 PM | #217 |
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Well I believe we are talking about just straight up profit. No factoring in toy sales, DVD sales, advertisement...... Just what they made from the movie after the theaters get their cut.
As far as who has seen what more is irrelevant to what I am talking about and even if we were talking about that I would agree with you. The numbers support that. So back on track, as far as ROC costing less, well that's just silly.........cause it didn't cost less. Talking about the coudla, shoulda, woulda's is moot! But for the sake of argument If everything costs (clothes, cars, TV, DVD's, etc) less to make and you still sell it at its price point of course it stands to make a bigger profit! Again not disputing that. So are you telling me that if a movie that cost 230 million dollars and made only 225 million it would be a success over a movie that cost 30 million dollars and made 40 million dollars? Let me ask you Gun and Troy....... You both are tasked with green lighting a sequel to either ROC or D9. You cannot factor anything other than profit on ticket sales...... again no toys, books, lunchboxes, etc. you get the point. There will be no change in cast, director, art, Special effects. Don't factor in anything but the numbers. The budget for both films is going to be the exact same which film do you green-light and why? ROC is a victim of bad decision making. but as a film and concept, it is more popular with audiences, so from that angle it was a success, that was all I was angling at. |
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08-23-2009, 05:51 PM | #218 |
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gotcha, agreed.
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08-23-2009, 05:54 PM | #219 |
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I am pretty sure Paramount is getting a % of all related toy/merch sales, so they are just as interested in moving product as Hasbro (well not AS interested, but close).
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08-23-2009, 05:56 PM | #220 |
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