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08-17-2009, 02:17 AM | #41 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: the city of WIN ... D
Posts: 190
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Quote:
I dunno...I think X-2 was really the turning point for comic movies, and still stands as the premier example of what a comic movie should be. It managed to take the fantastic and make it real world relevant in a way no other had before, and few since.
I personally was not a fan of TDK, to be honest (it really should have ended before the last 30 or so minutes...as it managed to take an otherwise entertaining movie and drag it through saccharine pap). I think the film's success was due largely (if not completely) to teenage fan girls getting their grief on for Ledger. His death somehow managed to catapult a mediocre movie (albeit, better than RoC, hahaha) into the stratosphere. Did Ledger's death intrigue people? Sure. But the film was already the most hyped and had pulpable anticipation from fans well before Ledger died. From the trailers, the prologue, success of BEGINS. Fans were chomping at the bit for TDK. Ledger's death just added another element of mystique to the project. Quality wise X2 can't even touch it. X2 is merely a comic book film. TDK is a zeitgeist film that makes STRONG relevant social commentary on a post 9/11 world. With performances across the board more memorable than anything in X2, as well as haunting albeit iconic visual images that will live on in cinema history. Like the debate isn't even close. TDK was arguable the best movie of 2008. Not just highest grossing, but the best film, period. It only got the shaft because it WAS based on a man who dresses up like a Bat and fights crime. X2 is just a mouse hair away from being on BEGINS level. But it isn't even close to TDK. Everything from script, scope, believablity, acting, TDK has X2 beat in spades. Hell, I don't even think X2 is anything significantly better than Singer's first film with "X-men" ... the only thing more interesting in X2 is the whole homosexual subtext. |
08-17-2009, 02:17 AM | #42 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: texas
Posts: 1,373
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Quote:
The Dark Knight transcends its mindless summer blockbuster / comic book movie / action movie tag ... so how can you compare it to something that is so far beyond it's competitors.
I mean, on a sidenote alot of people were LATE to Chris Nolan's vision of Batman. Batman Begins, while not as great as TDK, was by far the best comic book movie (IMO) and it's been the standard for many comic book movies since (namely Iron Man) and it didn't murder at the box office the way TDK happened to do so. It made a killing however on DVD when people who were skeptical on another Batman movie came around. |
08-17-2009, 02:22 AM | #43 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: the city of WIN ... D
Posts: 190
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Quote:
Guys there have been allot more good comic movies made than just the Dark Knight. Lets look back at the one that started all of this. That would be X-Men and when it first came out that's all anyone could talk about because for the first time we had a comic book movie that was so close to the original material and everyone liked it. Not just the fanboys. Spiderman one and two are also very good. It can happen more than once and Batman is not the end all be all good comic book movie. We have got allot out there to choose from.
1998's BLADE is what re-invented the then dead comic book movie genre and made people take them seriously, again. Superman:TM started it all, Burton's Batman '89 sealed the deal in terms of artistic visual quality and it went from there. TDK gets referenced the most because its the most recent, and is also clearly the best. In terms of it being so good, it exceeds its genre label. Do you understand what that means? Yes there have been great comic book movies, TDK is just in another stratosphere in comparison to them. |
08-17-2009, 02:22 AM | #44 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: texas
Posts: 1,373
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I always wondered about that as well.
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08-17-2009, 02:26 AM | #45 |
Cluster Foul-Up!
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Montréal
Posts: 592
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Quote:
....X2 is merely a comic book film. TDK is a zeitgeist film that makes STRONG relevant social commentary on a post 9/11 world. With performances across the board more memorable than anything in X2, as well as haunting albeit iconic visual images that will live on in cinema history....
Other than huge props to the design department behind the Joker's look, there is little that stands out as memorable, imho (and really, that' all I'm offering here: my opinion). I didn't find it particularly relevant, nor did it address in any meaningful way "a post 9/11 world" (although, I would be keen to hear what exactly you mean by that).
__________________
Not only are you cripplingly ignorant, you whine about it as well. |
08-17-2009, 02:36 AM | #46 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: texas
Posts: 1,373
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Mediocre movie, really?
TDK is a zeitgeist film that makes STRONG relevant social commentary on a post 9/11 world. With performances across the board more memorable than anything in X2, as well as haunting albeit iconic visual images that will live on in cinema history. |
08-17-2009, 02:36 AM | #47 |
Fatal Fluffy
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 442
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I don't agree with this, but I don't think it was the GREADEST MOBIE EBAH that so many folks like to promote it as. I thought it was a litle slow, a little drab, a little dull, and the boat scene was totally lame. And that's the one thing that I really remember from the film! It was a good movie, but I don't know why fanboys love this movie so so much.
It's kind of the same way a lot of people here reacted to Resolute, which I think also had a lot to do with the ROC movie coming out at the same time, and it wasn't "their" GI Joe, so they "sided" with Resolute, because lord knows you can't enjoy both ROC and Resolute, that's heresy! I liked Iron Man better than Dark Knight anyway, to me, it was more fun. So was ROC. |
08-17-2009, 02:42 AM | #48 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: the city of WIN ... D
Posts: 190
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Quote:
Hmmm....I dunno how I missed all that.
Other than huge props to the design department behind the Joker's look, there is little that stands out as memorable, imho (and really, that' all I'm offering here: my opinion). I didn't find it particularly relevant, nor did it address in any meaningful way "a post 9/11 world" (although, I would be keen to hear what exactly you mean by that). TDK is easily the more memorable and impactful movie. Thats what the entire movie's subtext is about. The War On Terror. Batman in this movie is potrayed as like a CIA black ops agent. Who spans the globe in search of criminals. It makes comments on state sponsore torture of terrorists to obtain information IE the scene with Batman interrogating and beating the hell out of the Joker to obtain informartion. It's a metaphor for the waterboarding and torture issues employed by the CIA to obtain info from hardened terrorists. The Joker is labeled a terrorist in the film. His warning video to Gotham on the news is very similar to many terrorist videos we've seen over the past few years. Meant to inspire the same feelings of dread. The images of the building Joker demolishes as they explode. Harvey Dent representing the political hope in times like the War On Terror, thematically Dent in ways represents a figure head like Barack Obama. "I believe in Harvey Dent" ... is similar to Barack Obama's "Hope" messages. The "white knight" so to speak. Or how about the finale where they talk about Batman being what the city needs him to be, which is the definition of not a hero, but a protector. Like the CIA, as Joker explains in the scene with Batman. "They need you right now, but when they don't ... they'll cast you out ... like a leper." Referring to the fact that we as a country need a covert operation to protect us by any means necessary (Batman) as said organization walks the fine line between vigilance and terrorist themselves, and citizens support and need said protector in times of crisis (Joker killings / 9-11) but ultimately in more civil times they will be cast out and viewed as the villain ... I could write a paper for you, but I'm tired. The point is thats what the movie's subtext is all about. Hell, look at the theatrical poster, and read the tag line. It's meant to inspire visually 9/11 themed imagery in order to convey the idea of chaos, destruction, and a world of terrorism. |
08-17-2009, 02:44 AM | #49 |
The Chaos Bringer
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Skid Row Yo!!!
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08-17-2009, 02:50 AM | #50 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: the city of WIN ... D
Posts: 190
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Quote:
If you are going to use phrases like zeitgeist, STRONG social commentary and post 911 world than you are gonna have to follow up with those statements and tell us all why that is. If not you run the risk of coming off pretentious. You know like little kids using daddies big boy talk even when they don't know what they are really saying. As far as the acting goes all he was doing was a really hammy over the top copy of Jacks acting in the first Batman movie. Come on how many folks have we seen doing the same thing just as good (or bad) on youtube. That argument just dose not hold water. Folks went cause he died and his death sold that movie.
Folks on youtube doing the same thing as what? Immitating another's persons creation? Yeah, that isn't hard to do. It's being the originator and creating it which is special. People can immitate anything. Arnold's voice, or an actor's monologue from a movie. Doesn't mean it negates the actual real performance. People went to the movie because it was Batman, it was a summer movie, it was ridiculously hyped dating back to the finale to Batman Begins, it was already being spread word of mouth via critics as being an outstanding movie, the disturbing imagery and look of the film, Ledger's performance, the Joker, the success of the 1st film in Batman Begins, and a whole slew of reasons. To chalk up the reason TDK made the money it did due to Ledger's death is a pea brained thought. Using that ideology, Heath's actual last movie "The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus" will make as much money as TDK when it is released in the next few weeks. Right? Wanna bet money on that? And I didn't mean to offend you if you don't understand those "big boy" educated man words. I'm sure its difficult for someone like you to follow. |
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