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05-22-2018, 03:11 PM | #31 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,019
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Quote:
On another note, I liked the little Zandar throw-away reference. Same thing with Beach Head and Major Bludd at the beginning. It was a way to have more characters in the movie without having to focus the story on them. Jason |
05-22-2018, 03:26 PM | #32 |
A Cimmerian
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mountain of Power
Posts: 10,984
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I thought there was a part where they noted some Joes had escaped execution. Snake Eyes was among them but I forget who else.
I thought Retaliation was overall much more in the spirit of Joe, but leveling Paris in RoC and then London in Ret. is king of unforgivable. That would completely change the world landscape, and it's hard to feel like you won when the villians destroyed a city and got away. Also, making Lady Jaye's dad a sexist prick but then having her pine for his posthumous approval was pretty sickening, as well. They took one of Joe royalty and turned her into a honey trap for most of the movie. I think I'm off topic a bit, but I guess my point is, none of this shit is salvageable to me. What was the question again?
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05-22-2018, 05:08 PM | #33 |
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Outside of complete rewriting the script and Shooting a whole new movie. The only other thing that could have made ROC watchable would be to have scarlet do every scene completely nude.
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05-22-2018, 11:40 PM | #34 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 2,980
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Quote:
Tatum's personality is the complete opposite of what a Blue Collar Yinzer from Pittsburgh is like. |
05-23-2018, 12:07 AM | #35 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Kansas
Posts: 981
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I think all responses to this thread need to be clarified, really. What are the goals of the changes?
To make it more personally satisfying? ring more true to the source material (what source?)? more appealing to the existing fanbase? sell more toys? more criticial respect? more box office success? Two things are for certain--the movies as they were did none of the above with great success--and there doesn't appear to be an idea or change that does all or even most of above. The only idea I have: give the property to Marvel Studios. |
05-23-2018, 12:22 AM | #36 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Kansas
Posts: 981
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My previous post stems from something I thought initially watching the first two Transformers movies, which mostly annoy me. When watching his scenes with the military, I told myself: Michael Bay should be making a Joe movie instead. I hate Michael Bay movies, but I love G.I. Joe, and part of that thought still rings true to me. But for what ends? Anyway...
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05-23-2018, 01:28 AM | #37 |
Filecard Maker
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 7,300
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I've said this before.
As a film, ROC and RET are not bad films. Their fair action adventure flicks that are basically shut your mind off grab some popcorn and enjoy. As G.I. Joe films...they were pretty bad. They focused too much on reinventing what wasn't broken. I think the bullet points of what needed to be changed were... -Duke Channing was chosen to drag young girls in. And he was horribly miscast. NOTHING about him felt like Duke. Some of that is his acting come of that is bad writing. -A massive prequel The film was a prequel without a feature. One of the biggest issues about the SW prequels was it felt the need to explain stuff that never needed to be explained. ROC did exactly that. Nobody wanted a complicated backstory that linked Duke, the Baroness and Cobra Commander. And explained how The Commander hijacked Destro's version of Cobra -Straying too far from the source I get it...you wanted to bring the films to as wide an audience as possible. But lets be honest...nearly every character, except maybe SE, SS and Scarlett were just the characters in name only. From Ripcord who was supposed to be Stalker and ended up more like Alpine than either Ripcord or Stalker, to Breaker who was completely not Breaker, to Heavy Duty which was not Heavy Duty or Roadblock, to Rex, to Destro (who wasn't half bad but not Destro etc, etc, etc. And then we have the Suits...both the mechanical ones and the reactive X-Men...opps armor. This entire film screamed ripped off from something else and in addition also screamed we tried to please everyone by adding something for everyone...and ended up pleasing no one. What would I have changed? Well its easy to play Tuesday morning QB, but I think I would have just followed what the cartoon did...oh not exactly, but just start off with Cobra and the Joe team established. They exist, Cobra does something awful, thats phase 1 of a plan and the Joes have to stop it. Sure you can make some changes to uniforms and such...maybe even add some new characters but we kinda have to have characters and actors that are close to what brought us to the dance to begin with. G.I. Joe shouldn't be that hard a film to make. Action adventure a PLETHORA of cool characters |
05-23-2018, 02:19 AM | #38 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Kansas
Posts: 981
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I started thinking more about Snake Eyes. I think both movies got a lot right with him, in terms of look and action. Typically fans don't have many gripes with his presentation and portrayal, and he more than anyone caught on beyond the established fandom.
But I just realized they missed an important aspect of his character that both Hama and surprisingly the first cartoon mini displayed. In both, there were moments were he displayed a high level sacrifice and endurance for his team and for duty, that would make him vulnerable despite his almost superhuman skill. And he would do it all in noble silence. This was lacking in both movies. For the movies to have captured that quality would have been magic. Those being introduced to the franchise should not come out of the theater just thinking he was so cool and a bad-ass. And this also why a solo Snake Eyes movie would likely fail--he works as Snake Eyes so well in a team framework. |
05-23-2018, 09:37 AM | #39 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 941
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There is nothing wrong with the concept of the Duke/Baroness/Rex storyline and the only reason why people dislike it is because it was so far removed from anything we have ever thought of of the characters. That’s not an indictment of the concept; that’s just personal disappointment.
But where that concept failed is the silly characterization of Rex as some naive, goody two shoes scientist who simply becomes evil when he is introduced to the nanomite technology. Rex should have been a hardened soldier with hints of a clearly disturbed side that friends simply ignored or didn’t notice. He’s part of Duke’s team, maybe even the leader, and not conveniently brought on a mission that fails. Perhaps the entire mission he planned to fake his own death as part of the entire nanomite plot, thus purposefully deceiving Duke and Ana whose sadness and despair is one more manipulation contrived by Rex. All of this makes him a far more believable Cobra Commander which is where that character fails — he shouldn’t just conveniently become bad because of an accident, he’s always been bad and takes advantage of a situation to further his own evil goals, manipulates and deceives his sister, and sets up a legitimate conflict with Duke who he perhaps never liked and never wanted him involved with his sister to begin with. Moreso, that should be the only backstory and flashback of this movie. Having two separate flashback stories in a movie is just bad storytelling. The Snake Eyes/Storm Shadow relationship should have been hinted at, but not only was the flashback not necessary for ROC but it should have been saved and revealed in Retaliation. That could have been a device the film series utilized to create cohesive as across it — different backstories in each one. |
05-23-2018, 09:55 AM | #40 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 941
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Quote:
I guess the next question would be which is better? ROC or Retaliation?
My main gripe with Retaliation is the very beginning of the movie, where they wipe out all of GIJOE? That's like 1000's of people. The PITT too? It is just a weak premise to begin the movie. Had they been Action Force in ROC, and dismantled by the governments that formed it in Retaliation then it makes more sense. Then just the one team gets killed, by some worm hole technology, (Tatum as Steeler goes to the World without End and gone for good, same with the Clutch and Grunt we saw). Then Roadblock can seek out Colton to actually form GIJOE. What happened to Hawk and Scarlett? (Maybe they got promoted to the Pentagon, but can come back later) However suspend belief after the opening scene and it's not too bad a movie, as it fits in with the more cartoon aspects of Joe we all know. Good Fun with the razor thin plot lines. The only difference is I would have called Firefly Copperhead and I think the character would have made more sense the way Ray Stevenson played him. The Ninja scenes were great. The Project Zeus device is the sort of stuff we always grew to love about the cartoons. I just realized Matt Gerald was Zandar. I had no idea. He was a great character in the movie. Jinx was great. Warden Nigel James may have been my favorite character. He could have been General Flagg though as a shout-out to the Coffin in DDP comics, where the Joes sent their prisoners. Then if he is killed they can name an Aircraft Carrier after him. The character designs were better in Retaliation, though, and if the Joes were in the more realistic digital camo unis in ROC instead of Sigma 6 base layers it could have been a much more pleasing movie. Last edited by backhawkdown; 05-23-2018 at 09:59 AM.. |
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