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01-30-2015, 07:11 AM | #11 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Brazil,Rio de janeiro
Posts: 2,994
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I doubt they'll make a solo movies of joes characters !!
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01-31-2015, 01:25 PM | #12 |
Ne Plus Ulta
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 4,606
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Fred has just invented a time machine and we're going to the year 2007. A discussion is going on in the [i]Movie, DVD, Television section of the Hisstank forum about why superheros (when adapted to film,) other characters from say Marvel or DC aren't brought in to have crossovers and what not. Quote:
The problem is, no one outside of toy nerds cares about Snake Eyes or Duke or Storm Shadow, let alone Ripcord or Shipwreck. And toy nerds ain't exactly numerous of numbers or mainstream. Hell, I'm a "fan" and I don't have much interest in watching a Snake Eyes movie.
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As for subteams, same issue only worse: no one knows WTF a "Dreadnok" or "Sky Patrol" is. G.I. Joe just isn't anywhere near being on the same level of public recognition as Marvel or DC stuff. Case in point: "Guardians of the Galaxy!? WTF is that?...Oh! Marvel! It's about superheroes! Cool!"
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Now contrast that to: "Gung Ho? What's that? Looks like a movie about a "Bear" or The Village People or some shit...oh...it's G.I. Joe...you know, that shitty flick from a couple of years ago based on that cheesy cartoon my older brother made me watch once or twice..."
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It makes perfect sense to anyone who isn't an adult fan of toys. The point is, G.I. Joe has next to no "brand cache" in popular culture--matter of fact, it may just be a "shit brand" nowadays (too associated with something hokey and dated to successfully make the leap to modern audiences)--and it isn't anywhere remotely close to being as valuable--or as marketable--as Marvel.
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Are you really so out of touch? There may be some vague awareness outside of comic readers and toy collectors, but it would be mostly of the, "I remember that cartoon." variety. As far as pop culture characters go, they don't even rate, and certainly not of the same magnitude as Marvel superhero characters.
[QUOTE=SmokeBellew;4791773]I think a "Snake Eyes" movie could be very successful, but I suspect "G.I. Joe" would have to be removed from the title for that to happen. I could see average guys/gals sitting in a theatre watching a trailer where some awesome masked badass of a ninja/commando/warrior thing is utterly decimating enemies with extreme prejudice and going, "Shit! I want to see that!" Add "G.I. Joe" to it and it suddenly becomes, "Oh, it's that kid's toy!" That happens not just because of the name, "G.I. Joe," but also because G.I. Joe is a kid's toy and Hasbro wants it to be a kid's toy. That means Snake Eyes can't be too realistic of a back-breaking, neck-snapping psychopath. It also means you can't create one helluva war flick about a team of counter-terrorist soldiers who act in a realistically gritty way. Once you attach "G.I. Joe" to it, that team of counter-terrorists soldiers now has to walk a fine line between being taken seriously by adult audiences and remaining "kid friendly."[/quote[] I think an IRON MAN movie could be very successful, but I suspect, that MARVEL would have to be removed from the title for that to happen. I could see average guys/gals sitting in a theatre watching a trailer where some awesome badass, sarcastic wit, and devil may care attitude of Tony Stark who's technological genius who makes mechs. "Shit! I want to see that!" Add "MARVEL" to it (without Spidey or mutants,) and it suddenly becomes, "MARVEL'S B LIST CHARACTERS! Quote:
That happens not just because of the name, "G.I. Joe," but also because G.I. Joe is a kid's toy and Hasbro wants it to be a kid's toy. That means Snake Eyes can't be too realistic of a back-breaking, neck-snapping psychopath. It also means you can't create one helluva war flick about a team of counter-terrorist soldiers who act in a realistically gritty way. Once you attach "G.I. Joe" to it, that team of counter-terrorists soldiers now has to walk a fine line between being taken seriously by adult audiences and remaining "kid friendly."
Ironically, out of all of the toys out there, JOE is the easiest one to build your franchise on. What a JOE movie needs either a straight up fan writing the script and directing or somebody who sees the potential in the project. I've been listening to Kevin Smith's Fatman on Batman podcasts and I've learned there's a reason why all of comic to TV and movie adaptions have been so good of late, it's because you have fanboys and doing the creative work. Jeph Loeb has been reading over comics for damn 50 years and has over 100,000 of them. Geoff Johns actually wrote comics and is Chief Creative Officer at DC is acts as a liaison with the TV and Film division. These guys not only get the source material, but they also bring with them their love and passion to the projects they're involved with. That's what G.I. JOE needs somebody who understands the brand, the characters and who is able to work with the creative forces behind a project. You want to allow people to have creative freedom, but at the same time you don't want them doing shit like making up love triangles that don't exist, putting a fish bowl on C.C. or wasting JGL's talents. That's where in lies the problem. Will Hasbro let some busy bitch dictate who their characters will be portrayed. I think a happy balance would be if they went the Winter Solider route. Quote:
Superheroes have an easier time dealing with this dichotomy. Adults have to suspend disbelief from the get-go--because, well, SUPERHEROES--so while superheroes are expected to deal with some heavy things without crossing certain kid-friendly lines left over from the Golden Age (you'll recall, of course, the geek tantrum over Supes snapping Zod's neck in the Man of Steel), we're not really looking at any of it as real anyway and they get some hefty leeway to be both believable and ridiculous at the same time. But the G.I. Joe team aren't superheroes. They're soldiers, which is as real-ass as real-ass can get. So in a very real sense it's a brand that has to contend with making action movies that appeal to adults while simultaneously somehow making warfare kid-friendly without resorting to camp, kitsch or outright ridiculousness. It's a tall order and it’s why I personally feel G.I. Joe isn’t right for the big screen. It's trying to be all things to all people. Hasbro needs to just pick an audience and concentrate on that audience.
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Last edited by Fred Broca; 02-01-2015 at 01:23 PM.. |
01-31-2015, 02:01 PM | #13 |
Ne Plus Ulta
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 4,606
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In a way this is needed because G.I. Joe has so many characters, it's hard to get any significant development on very many of them in a regular movie. At least with the cartoons, a single episode could focus on just a handful of characters. How can a movie develop every G.I. Joe character in the roster that it would be featuring?
1) Decide upon the core characters that are going to be used. 2) The story arc. 3) Time period, will this be a contemporary film or a period piece set in the 80's 4) Possible subplots and how do the the JOES and COBRA come to their climatic battle. Quote:
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It all comes down to what they want to make of it. There was a time people didn't even think any one would want to see an Iron Man movie. Who ever heard of Iron Man, they said? Captain America was another property no one wanted to touch. Ant-Man? Really? If smart producers work off the existing Joe material, they can build a massive franchise with tons of movies. They have a similar large roster of appealing characters to Marvel. Likewise DC has a great roster, but they can't get their act together on the movies outside of Bats and Supes.
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You probably would have felt the same way about those characters too, and you would have right. G.I. is only three or four good movies away from being the next great film franchise.
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02-02-2015, 08:30 AM | #14 |
Crimson Nerd
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,573
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Trying to compare G.I. Joe's current state (or even pre-movie state) to pre Iron Man Marvel is utterly ridiculous.
Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, and the Hulk had ~50+ years of comics, cartoons, toys, and pop culture cachet that ARAH GI Joe simply doesn't share. ARAH G.I. Joe only strongly appeals to one generation (children of the 80's)...Marvel had fans across multiple generations (Children of the 60's through today). Yeah, Marvel's getting to more obscure characters now...after 10 successful films built on the more popular/well-known characters. Trying to argue that's proof individual G.I. Joe character movies could work is...not even close. Trying to spin "individual character" movies out of ARAH G.I. Joe for anyone besides perhaps Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow would never work. Because on a fundamental level, G.I. Joe is about a team, not just one person, and a huge chunk of these stories is how the characters bounce off one another. Beyond that, the G.I. Joe Universe doesn't even come remotely close to the breadth and scope of the Marvel Universe. With the Marvel Universe, you can make Captain America into a political thriller or a World War II period piece. You can make Guardians of the Galaxy into a quirky space opera. You can make Thor into an epic fantasy, or Iron Man into an action-packed character study. That universe is rich and varied enough that you can create countless stories within it, using the superheroes as the trappings for many different types of story. With ARAH G.I. Joe, you can get "military stories" and "ninja stories" with an occasional stretch of "spy stories." And that's about it. Maybe you can reaaaaaaly stretch and make a sci-fi/horror film out of Cobra-La, but I rather bet that many ARAH Joe fans wouldn't exactly be clamoring for that. Go outside of that, and you're not really playing with G.I. Joe anymore, you're just using your G.I. Joe toys to play something entirely different from what they are. |
02-02-2015, 12:37 PM | #15 |
Ne Plus Ulta
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 4,606
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In 1966, Iron Man was featured in a series of cartoons.[109] In 1981, Iron Man guest appeared in Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends, but only as Tony Stark.[110] He went on to feature again in his own series in the 1990s as part of the Marvel Action Hour with the Fantastic Four; Robert Hays provided his voice in these animated cartoons. Iron Man makes an appearance in the episode "Shell Games" of Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes. Apart from comic books, Iron Man appears in Capcom's "Vs." video games, including Marvel Super Heroes, Marvel vs. Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes as either a Gold War Machine or Hyper Armor War Machine, Marvel vs. Capcom 2: New Age of Heroes, Marvel vs. Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds, and Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Iron Man is a playable character in Iron Man, the 1992 arcade game Captain America and the Avengers, Marvel: Ultimate Alliance and its sequel, and Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects, as well as being featured as an unlockable character in X-Men Legends II: Rise of Apocalypse and Tony Hawk's Underground. Captain America had the '60's cartoon, two live action TV Series in the '70's, and some appearances in the 80's, 90's, and 00's. Captain America in other media - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I didn't find much on Thor so I'm going off the top of head, Thor just had the 60's cartoon and the made for TV movie with the Hulk when he kept calling the Hulk a green troll. Prior to the movies to if you asked people who Iron Man was, they would probably tell you it's a Black Sabbath song, a sports fan would tell probably say Cal Ripken. Ask them who Thor was, would tell you the Norse god of thunder and that's probably about it. Show a person a picture of Thor, they wouldn't be able to identity find because Kirby and Lee didn't base Thor of his depiction in Norse mythology, and I daresay nobody could tell you who Cap was. To here is say that Cap, Thor, and Iron Man were a big part of pop culture and easily recognizable characters is intellectually dishonestly, especially since the only Marvel even used those characters in the first place is because they didn't have the rights to Spidey, the X-Men and F.F.[/b] Quote:
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Because on a fundamental level, G.I. Joe is about a team, not just one person, and a huge chunk of these stories is how the characters bounce off one another. Beyond that, the G.I. Joe Universe doesn't even come remotely close to the breadth and scope of the Marvel Universe.
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With the Marvel Universe, you can make Captain America into a political thriller or a World War II period piece. You can make Guardians of the Galaxy into a quirky space opera. You can make Thor into an epic fantasy, or Iron Man into an action-packed character study. That universe is rich and varied enough that you can create countless stories within it, using the superheroes as the trappings for many different types of story.
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Maybe you can reaaaaaaly stretch and make a sci-fi/horror film out of Cobra-La, but I rather bet that many ARAH Joe fans wouldn't exactly be clamoring for that. Go outside of that, and you're not really playing with G.I. Joe anymore, you're just using your G.I. Joe toys to play something entirely different from what they are.
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02-02-2015, 01:15 PM | #16 |
Crimson Nerd
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,573
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Iron Man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In 1966, Iron Man was featured in a series of cartoons.[109] In 1981, Iron Man guest appeared in Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends, but only as Tony Stark.[110] He went on to feature again in his own series in the 1990s as part of the Marvel Action Hour with the Fantastic Four; Robert Hays provided his voice in these animated cartoons. Iron Man makes an appearance in the episode "Shell Games" of Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes. Apart from comic books, Iron Man appears in Capcom's "Vs." video games, including Marvel Super Heroes, Marvel vs. Capcom: Clash of Super Heroes as either a Gold War Machine or Hyper Armor War Machine, Marvel vs. Capcom 2: New Age of Heroes, Marvel vs. Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds, and Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Iron Man is a playable character in Iron Man, the 1992 arcade game Captain America and the Avengers, Marvel: Ultimate Alliance and its sequel, and Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects, as well as being featured as an unlockable character in X-Men Legends II: Rise of Apocalypse and Tony Hawk's Underground. Captain America had the '60's cartoon, two live action TV Series in the '70's, and some appearances in the 80's, 90's, and 00's. Captain America in other media - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I didn't find much on Thor so I'm going off the top of head, Thor just had the 60's cartoon and the made for TV movie with the Hulk when he kept calling the Hulk a green troll. Prior to the movies to if you asked people who Iron Man was, they would probably tell you it's a Black Sabbath song, a sports fan would tell probably say Cal Ripken. Ask them who Thor was, would tell you the Norse god of thunder and that's probably about it. Show a person a picture of Thor, they wouldn't be able to identity find because Kirby and Lee didn't base Thor of his depiction in Norse mythology, and I daresay nobody could tell you who Cap was. To here is say that Cap, Thor, and Iron Man were a big part of pop culture and easily recognizable characters is intellectually dishonestly, especially since the only Marvel even used those characters in the first place is because they didn't have the rights to Spidey, the X-Men and F.F.[/b] Try doing a bit more research and figure out just how much those comics used to sell before the idiots in charge decided they were "collectors items" and killed the market in the mid-90's. There was a time when even their "low sellers" were in the hundreds of thousands of copies. You are VASTLY underestimating how popular comic books were from the 60's through the early 90's. Nevermind that the "recognition" of any given G.I. Joe character is VASTLY LESS than what you claim Marvel's was before the movies. Go ahead...go show the average guy or girl off the street a picture of Chuckles and see how many people recognize him. Even Duke or Flint, at best, is probably going to just be called "G.I. Joe." The bad guys likely fare a bit better, but you seem to forget that for most folks these days, ARAH G.I. Joe is a punchline because of how cheesy and campy the old series is perceived as being. Quote:
Dude, Disney made a successful film franchise based of a theme park ride. As I said before, only G.I. JOE needs is a good script and a good movie.
So what was that about "intellectual dishonesty?" Because you sure throw stones really well from that glass house. Quote:
Again, we have the intellectual dishonesty. Can you sit here an honestly say that the Marvel movies would be as successful are before they can out. Or that Aquaman is getting a movie. If Aquaman and Ant Man can get a movie, I don't see why properly written and executed JOE character can't.
As for the rest: Most G.I. Joe characters are paper-thin compared to Aquaman or even Ant-Man, who have decades of history behind them. The vast bulk of G.I. Joe characters (IE anyone not named Duke, Snake-Eyes, Scarlett, Storm-Shadow, Cobra Commander, Destro, Baroness, and maybe Zartan, Flint, Firefly, Roadblock, and Lady Jaye) have at best a handful issues of comic books and maybe an episode or two of a cartoon mostly about them. Not exactly rich character development there. Compared to thousands of appearances for Aquaman and Ant-Man and it's not even a contest. Quote:
Snakes Eyes is hard to do because he doesn't talk.
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It all depends on premise of the movie.
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This is only after you've seen what the finished product was, especially after GotG.
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It's worked for James Bond for 50 years.
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JOE fans will see anything that has the name G.I. JOE attached to it, not only will they see it, they'll argue that fucked up product is actually good. RoC proved that.
Last edited by Jmacq1; 02-02-2015 at 01:21 PM.. |
02-02-2015, 05:17 PM | #17 |
twitter viper
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: SD
Posts: 4,909
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War time, tragic romance, Scarlett and Snake Eyes, kicking tail together but, its against regulations to fraternize, so you have that to contend with. Make Scarlett an officer. She almost was back in the comics at one point, all the O13 were nearly made officers.
Snake Eyes jeopardizes a mission, gets himself in hot water, and we finally get to see the true romance between these two. That is a movie I would want to see. It has elements of a romance, a tragedy, and an action flick. It also is a type of story has not been explored very much.
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Take a load off and watch some GIJOE videos. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYF...fZnzjMATv1_JGg That's the way the Pogo Ballistic Battle Ball bounces. |
02-02-2015, 06:50 PM | #18 |
Not a mod
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: In the 1980's
Posts: 5,683
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I love G.I. Joe. I couldn't say that about any other toy line. But that being said...
Marvel's movie properties = a gold mine. Actually a gold mine that branches off into several silver mines. G.I. Joe's movie properties = a dirt mine. No matter which way that it's done, G.I. Joe is never going to be anything better than breaking even or being just successful enough to warrant a sequel. Half of the public probably think G.I. Joe is one guy. Maybe that should be the next re-invention. Make him one guy, and when he dies, the next best soldier in the world takes his place. Sort of like Captain America, but without the super-hero serum. And more guns. And ninjas. |
03-13-2015, 12:05 PM | #19 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 839
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Snake-eye film series would sell better than Joe in General....
M.A.S.K. could work maybe build the world show that cobra wasnt the first organization of it's kind.
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