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04-01-2013, 03:46 PM | #1 |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 4,187
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If there is any part of Retaliation that is worthy of a Marvel No-Prize, it's the revelation of Zartan as the killer of the Hard Master and the reasoning behind it.
We all know Zartan being responsible for the death of the Hard Master and for Storm Shadow going down the dark path is ridiculous. Possibly the most difficult part of Retaliation for me to accept due to the leaps of logic it takes to get there. I see where Reese and Wertner were trying to go but it just didn't work as well as it should have. So the challenge is to explain that part of the story so it makes sense. We can all come up with ways to make it better after the fact (case in point - use a younger look-a-like for Arnold Vosloo). But what's the explaination using the information presented on screen? Why and for whom would Zartan want to turn SS when it will be many years before the formation of Cobra? How does Zartan look the same age in the flashback when this took place before his nanomite injection? I'm sure people on here have some eleborate backstories that can make this scene work better as presented. |
04-01-2013, 04:22 PM | #2 |
This is my user title.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Manitoba Canada
Posts: 1,265
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Zartan is like 90 years old and has had the same surgeries the hollywood people get to cheat the aging look so he always looked younger. Then the nano injection (the fountain of youth) and voila ... a ridiculous cover story.
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04-01-2013, 04:25 PM | #3 |
Joe Curator
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Frozen Tundra
Posts: 1,080
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What the hell, it's a slow day:
Zartan looking similar in age is not that difficult to cover. I don't remember the exact length of time that was supposed to have passed, but even if we assume it was 20 years, there are a number of people that look similar at 45 to their late-20s (and I hate them all ) see: Nigella Lawson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The bigger question is why go this route. I think the first error is assuming Zartan was doing this in the interest of Cobra, he wasn't. Rather, Zartan was planning to start his own terrorist/assassin organization which would become the red ninjas. The challenge was to gain the knowledge of a Arashikage clan. He couldn't infiltrate it himself, too old at the time and likely well known to the Arashikage. Rather, he needed to corrupt a student. Observing from the outside he noted a young, brilliant but hot-headed student. He needed to bring this student over to him, but he couldn't just directly contact him. Rather, framing him for the death of the Hard Master. This accomplished 2 goals - 1) driving SS to zartan and 2) removing a rival but remaining innocent and below the radar of the ninja clan. So SS, already jealous about the rise of SE, a common born street rat who had no right to be trained by the clan, is driven out of the clan and into the waiting arms of Zartan. The plan was likely to nuture him and take what knowledge Zartan could, using this to raise his own army of assassins. So it was, until discovered by the Commander. I'd have to review ROC to see if any backstory exists for the connection between the two. |
04-01-2013, 04:28 PM | #4 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
But why couldn't Zartan infiltrate himself?
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04-01-2013, 04:45 PM | #5 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 4,069
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Same as the comic, Zartan sought to kill Snake Eyes. He could not join the clan to infiltrate, so he endured hardships to get the swordmaster to take him on as an apprentice.
Snake-Eyes' family was killed by Rex and Anastasia Lewis's older brother in a drunk-driving accident while SE's family and the older Lewis were working in Tokyo. The surviving Lewis's first act of vengeance (as high-schoolers) was to arrange a hit on the little boy, Snake-Eyes, who had survived. (His twin sister killed, BTW it was the Lewis brother who was drunk - irony.) But little boy SE survives that first hit (turns out the failed assassin was Firefly, go figure) and ends up on the street, when events depicted in ROC occur. Hired by the Lewises, Zartan's sword was meant to kill Snake-Eyes, but his prosthetic make-up was on too thick, so he had to listen for SE's heartbeat, which Hard Master was mimicking to show off some ninja trick. Bad timing, HM. Anyway, lemons out of lemonade, Zartan offered the Lewises their very own Ninja exchange student as a consolation, etc. Etc. Of course, Zartan is the true master of the remaining Red Ninjas, which we will find out when he comes back to life. That is, until Firefly, the true "faceless master" will come back to life and reveal that he was actually the mastermind the whole time. Thus setting up his backstory and history with Rex referenced in Retaliation. Last edited by Stalker; 04-01-2013 at 04:46 PM.. Reason: Or if his makeup was good, maybe he was behind a wall or something. |
04-01-2013, 04:48 PM | #6 |
Joe Curator
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Frozen Tundra
Posts: 1,080
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Let me watch the movie again and I'll get back to you
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04-01-2013, 05:11 PM | #7 |
o-ring or nothing
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: In the 1980's
Posts: 5,695
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The easy answer is it was Chu throwing the fans a bone by using the story from the comics. He just adjusted it to fit in with Rise of Cobra.
Much like the comics, Zartan did it for the challenge. He was just starting out and trying to make a name for himself. What better challenge than killing a ninja master in his own compound? Rex and Anna are about the same age as Storm Shadow and Snake Eyes, so they were too young to arrange the hit when it happened. Zartan simply planned on using Storm Shadow for a few jobs, then simply left him on his own. Storm Shadow didn't even know him as Zartan, but as whoever he was impersonating (let's just call him Onihashi). That's why in Rise of Cobra, he threatened Zartan, after Zartan had killed Cover Girl and Storm Shadow didn't approve. |
04-01-2013, 05:13 PM | #8 |
Cobra Pimp and Hustler
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Springfield
Posts: 6,139
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Zartan was exposed by Chris Hansen as a pedo in the States on an episode of To Catch a Predator, so he fled to Asia, where as everyone knows, those of Zartan's perverse leanings can run about as they please.
One day, while walking in the countryside, he spotted a young boy training in a ninja compound and decided that he must have him. He disguised himself and killed the Hard Master, knowing the boy would be impossibly stupid enough to run away into the woods despite there being nothing to really link him to the crime. Zartan lured the young Storm Shadow into the forest with promises of fresh cooked fish heads and unlimited boxes of Pocky. What then happened to the boy was unspeakable, and lead him down the dark path of terrorism, madness, and death. In Rise of Cobra, the following exchange proves it all, when Storm Shadow makes a bitter, homophobic comment to his former abuser while invading The Pit: Zartan: "Oh, that's right...you don't kill women." Storm Shadow: "In your case, Zartan, I'd make an exception." You could hear the years of abuse in SS's voice- the quivering anger, the barely choked-back tears. It would take until SS had the support of his former friend and lover, Snake Eyes, before he could finally stand up to the lusty, evil man who had corrupted his innocence, finally and forcefully penetrating him...um, with his sword, that is. Of course, this is all ridiculousness, but why else would SS work with the man who he knew had killed his uncle for no clear-cut reason 20-something years ago, only to raise him in the woods himself? Or did SS really NOT know and finally just put two-and-two together about Zartan in Retaliation (based on ZERO evidence)? Either way, the Storm Shadow/Zartan plotline in that movie was balls-out retarded. To a fan of the comic, they would kinda/sorta get it as fan service, but to anyone else they would just be sitting there going WTF. Throwing fans a bone is great and all, but there's no need to use piss-poor writing to do it.
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The bad-ass king of all pimps and hustlers Dolemite's BST Thread Dolemite's Feedback Thread Last edited by Dolemite; 04-01-2013 at 05:18 PM.. |
04-01-2013, 05:14 PM | #9 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Classified
Posts: 8,376
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yeah, that whole situation was kinda messed up. its sounds better if you don't think about it closely...
what about this banter from ROC. Zartan, "Oh, that's right... you don't kill women." Storm Shadow, "In your case, Zartan, I'd make an exception." d' oh! ninja'd by dolemite...
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"If ignorance is bliss, then knock the smile off my face." ~ ZDLR Last edited by CVdelgado; 04-01-2013 at 05:18 PM.. |
04-01-2013, 05:21 PM | #10 |
Nok
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,121
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Hmm not sure but I don't dolemite liked the movie. I feel bad for the short round fig that he will customize for the "unspeakable" dio.
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