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08-12-2018, 04:57 PM | #41 |
A Cimmerian
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mountain of Power
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Fans in pop culture have historically been intense. None of this is new, save for a new term to describe it. Not even the racism or sexism.
What it's really representative of us a simple philosophical shift in customer service wherein the producer is aiding the customer by providing products and services, not that the customer should be valued as a consumer, but viewed to be ungrateful when they are dissatisfied. I constantly see fandom referred to as entitled. But as a customer that spends money, i am entitled- certainly, at the least, to opinions. This concept had simply reached a new level a producer aggression toward the consumer now that a multibillion dollar company is trashing a multibillion dollar property with subpar output and threatening to sour the milk of its cash cow. The easiest response in this age where everyone all of a sudden has political values is to turn it into a political argument under the guise of social righteousness by isolating the limited number of abhorrent opinions and highlighting them on social media to drive the idea that it's bigotry that hates these movies, not regular fans whi know they've just been shoveled shit.
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08-12-2018, 06:11 PM | #42 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2017
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The irony is that the people who talk about equality the most are usually the first to bring up topics like race (the term they use for delineating people by skin color or ethnic origin despite us all being one race, the human race) in the midst of a conversation where it wasn't even relevant. Their entire worldview is seen through a lens of "race", which is a form of ad hominem (and decidedly narrow minded!), rather than assessing ideas based on their merit and truth instead of the type of person speaking them.
The same goes for tolerance. It's often the same people, and the louder they are about tolerance, the more they seem decidedly INtolerant of anyone who shares a view different than their own. Perhaps the irony is their hypocrisy. "Do as I say, not as I do, because I'm better than you so I can tell you what you should or shouldn't say, what you should or shouldn't think", etc. You'll notice the persons bloviating at length about "whiteness" or pointing out anniversaries for trumped-up events that most normal people don't know or make it a point to remember, are the only ones fixated on the incidentals like the "race" of the people discussing the matter at hand, in this case the Star Wars movies, rather than considering the merits of the actual opinions being expressed about the movies. They continue to try to force the conversation to be about race (or any other element of identity politics) and then continue to try to redirect the conversation back to it even after you dismiss their weird, antiquated way of viewing the world that's as biased and racist as any "alt-right" boogeyman or actual KKK member. Sorry, but sometimes bad movies are just bad and there is no hidden agenda for the majority of the fandom that expresses their opinion of them. It's never an honest tactic to find an extremist and then act like they represent the majority of the fandom. That's the sort of dishonorable labeling tactic that is used to silence other perspectives on a matter and it's inherently a fascist behavior, being anti free speech and anti liberty. Yet the people trying to chill conversation or suppress free speech also are the ones labeling their opponents as fascists (or "alt-right" or similar loaded terms), hence the irony that is unfortunately lost on them. Last edited by edgecrusher; 08-12-2018 at 06:23 PM.. |
08-12-2018, 07:24 PM | #43 |
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08-12-2018, 07:47 PM | #44 |
Broca Beach Realtor
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Just google Kelly Tran and the word delete and see how many hits you get.
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08-12-2018, 07:47 PM | #45 |
Cobra Amphibian Trainer
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Ventura
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Back to the original post in this thread, I know Fub Pub is shutting down due to the license expiration with Hasbro, but is there a sense that toxic fandom has affected them?
I ask this sincerely, having never interacted with or seen the Fun Pub staff. It seems like they get touchy about comments on their website but do people think they would have ended operations if Hasbro left the license open-ended?
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08-12-2018, 08:21 PM | #46 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Quote:
Thank you ALL for your responses. I have had these discussions with Marvel Fans, DC Fans, and GI Joe Fans, and I wanted to offer up a more civil approach to our criticisms of film and product. I know people from Hasbro, from the Club, and among the collectors and Hisstankers that are as passionate about GI Joe as anyone else, and I believe the Club and Hasbro has tried to keep the collectors happy and still sell a product. "Passion" has become a word we use to excuse poor manners and rudeness. Someone above mentioned the added security of sitting behind a keyboard and monitor using the anonymity of this medium to lash out. Well, it happens. Mine was meant to be a call for us, in OUR COMMUNITY, to be better than other fan bases. The ugliness alone may prevent anyone from trying to start a new club, or from championing a re-introduction of the brand at Hasbro. That would be a sad thing. I submit that GI Joe, like a lot of toys, are part of our pop culture fabric. Through play, we have learned to deal with the horrors of war and terrorism in a small way.
I apologize for my generalizations about Star Wars. I was 12 when the 1st movie came out. It forever changed me. The original score still brings tears to my eyes. When I served on a US Navy ship, that song was our replenishment break-away song. The politics and the drama wrapped around the things we care about sometimes tarnishes those things. I will take personal responsibility for ensuring my grandchildren have access to GI Joes. Even the Flagg. Maybe not the Defiant... If I have offended anyone, it wasn't my intent. Let's celebrate the toy we all love, and find new ways to keep the brand alive until GI Joe once again takes up the Battle Cry and makes his and her presence felt in the toy world. I celebrate the freedom that this site brings to all of us to express our feelings about GI Joe. Remember that we are all people, and there is a drought of civility in our world. Let us be mindful of that as we move forward from this. May the Force be with you all. Yo Joe. Like yourself I have entertained this debate on many forums. I apologize if I reacted harshly. Let us shun anger, fear, aggression, and all such endeavors of the dark side. Yo Joe. Quote:
Its always a fine line.
Personally if I'm a fan I try to keep it positive, but I'm not gonna ignore a hobbies failings either. Good example...for whatever faults ROC had...as a film I actually liked it. Sure it wasn't Joe I was used to. But as an action film designed to not only reinvent G.I. Joe to a new generation but appeal to as wide an audience as possible. It was not ARAH...but as a Summer shut your brain off and watch an action flick...it wasn't bad. Now did it fall short? On nearly every level from the character changes, to some of the actors and even the toyline...yeah it fell hard on its face. Similarly I felt the same about the first two Transformers Bay films. After three it was so repetitive even I stopped defending them. Jem also had issues as well...Its actually not a bad story. Its is however a HORRIBLE adaption of what we originally fell in love with. As for Star Wars...look I've been watching SW since the beginning...yes I was old enough to have seen ep 4 in theater when it debuted the first run. And for better or worse I loved all 3 films from that trilogy. When the prequels showed up...I probably loved them a little less then the original trilogy. Their actually not horrible films, but needlessly between over explaining The Force, and the odd moments that don't fit what was established...like Ben not knowing about Leia etc...its markedly the lesser trilogy. Its far from awful, but you do have to acknowledge stuff like how terrible a character Jar Jar is, or Hayden's less than great performances. Stuff like Clone Wars cartoon help to make that series fit better. I will admit...as a fan for as long as I have been...the scrapping of the EU rubbed me the wrong way. Its hard to say, "I loved what has been done for years...but that doesn't matter now." Its a little like parents getting divorced and being forced to call the new guy in your Mom's life 'Dad'...as if your real Dad never mattered. BUT I was willing to give the new Disneyverse its fair chance. AND I loved Rebels. And I loved Rogue One. And I also loved Han Solo. And while I felt TFA was made to be a safe retread of ep 4 with new characters I also didn't hate it. It maybe was a bit too similar to both ep 4, 6 and 1...but I found it to have enough unanswered questions that I was looking forward to ep 8. Episode 8...was a rough episode. My entire family walked out of a theater for the only time in our watching SW product say, "I didn't really like that film." It has some good moments. The bomber fight is decent. So is the saber fight between Kylo and Rey...and the fight between Kylo and Luke. But for the most part cinemas slowest space chase ever with a side bar to go to a casino planet for a plot that end up failing miserably and getting more people killed, while trashing all the questions the last film brought up...the questions that were bringing fans back for this film...well it just left a seriously sour taste in people mouths. NOW...lets talk about the toxic fans. Look you have a right to like or not like a film. But the level of insanity that has cropped up since ep 1 has driven Jake Llyod to awful places. And caused the disgusting racist attacks on John Boyega, Ahmed Best, and Kelly Marie Tran is just unforgivable. Yeah...I didn't like TLJ. But not enough to hate the actors or bully them online to a breaking point. Sure I might say I didn't care for such and such's performance (Channing in ROC)...that's disgusting behavior by any means. Yeah I hope the next film is better. And frankly Solo was a better film than TLJ, so those that boycotted it...well that was arrogant entitlement and you missed a good film. Lastly I hope I like ep 9 is better than ep 8...but if I don't will I complain about it? Sure. Enough to throw a fit and boycott more films or demand a film be REMADE, or will I trash the actors who were in it...no. And its pretty sad that there are people that do that. Just one man's opinion. But conversely I thought Rouge One was pretty good but Solo, while much better than TLJ was pretty forgettable. Not bad in any way, just so so. Just MHO. I don’t see boycotting as an entitlement though. If I don’t like what your selling I don’t buy it. It’s my money and LF is not entitled to it. The Club did wrong by me so I stopped buying their products. My local pizzaria changed hands. I felt the quality fell off so I don’t buy their pizza anymore. That is in no way entitlement. I think the entitlement was on the the part of LF thinking people should just like whatever they put out regardless of quality. Again that is just MHO. Quote:
Quote:
Most of the outlets against the current state of SW have denounced such behavior. Maybe the opposing camps can find some common ground in standing together against such online harassment?
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08-12-2018, 09:38 PM | #47 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Parts Unknown
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This conversation is quickly veering into politics (although it has from the beginning really).
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08-12-2018, 10:27 PM | #48 |
Crimson Guard
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Quote:
Have you seen any evidence that Kelly Marie Tran ever said she left instagram because of harassment? |
08-13-2018, 09:13 AM | #49 |
I just want foam gliders.
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On Kelly’s decision to leave social media: https://www.google.com/amp/s/variety...202830892/amp/
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