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View Poll Results: Which Nation Inspired Cobra? | |||
USSR | 5 | 17.86% | |
Cuba | 3 | 10.71% | |
Libya | 2 | 7.14% | |
Other | 18 | 64.29% | |
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll |
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Thread Tools |
07-12-2018, 06:37 PM | #1 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,018
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We all know that Cobra was a figment of Larry Hama’s imagination, though influenced by things like Hydra. But Cobra didn’t really behave like a terrorist organization (at least not those of the ‘70’s and ‘80’s). It ran like a state. Heck, it had its own island. Twice. It manufactured and sold sophisticated weapons. It influenced states. So what if Cobra was really based on one of the 1980’s geopolitical “enemies of the USA”? Which enemy would that be?
The Soviet Union: The Bear! The Red Hordes! The superpower that armed the oppressed world, exporting advisors and weapons to perpetuate proxy wars, and that conducted shadowy cloak and dagger campaigns of espionage and sabotage. It also suffered from near perpetual internal political struggles between its elite leaders, with all sorts of intrigue and treachery. Why is it a good fit? It was THE enemy. Why might it not be a good fit? It may be too big. Cobra behaved a bit like the USSR, but seemed nimbler in a way. And Cobra doesn’t really have a Communist ideology. Even Baroness dropped that after a couple of issues. And the Oktober Guard were Soviets. Joe wasn’t sufficiently of the Surrealist Movement to have Soviet troops fighting Cobra based on the Soviet Union. Cuba: It’s an island. It’s almost in the Gulf of Mexico. Casto ruled through what almost amounts to a cult of personality, while exporting soldiers and equipment to wars in Africa, Central America, and the Middle East. The US tried all sorts of sneaky (and completely inept) ways to knock of Castro (Bay of Pigs! Poisoned cigars!) that could have been Joe stories. Why is it a good fit? Geography! Why might it not be a good fit? Again, communism. The behavior is right, but not the ideology. Libya: You could spell the leader’s name with a G, a K or a Q! Libya supported terror groups from every continent. It fought wars with most of its neighbors. It ran secret programs to develop weapons of mass destruction. And Ghaddafi’s wardrobe – wow! He makes the Cobra elite look like conservative dressers! Why might it be a good fit: With no rigid ideology, support for terror around the world, and involvement in various hot spots, its behavior aligns with Cobra. Why might it not be a good fit? Geography. Thoughts? Any other ideas? |
07-12-2018, 07:07 PM | #2 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,449
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I don't see any particular nation inspiring, although Nazi Germany probably played a little part (see also: Galactic Empire). Of course, being our enemies, they were familiar with Warsaw Pact weapons, and some like the Snow Serpent and Scrap Iron had a Soviet feel to them, even though others had M-16s and the like.
But yeah, HYDRA is definitely the main inspiration, maybe a little AIM or SPECTRE. And once the ninja stuff got going full-swing, I'd say The Hand had a little inspiration for the hordes of faceless red ninja used as cannon fodder. Plus, when ARAH was created, people still strongly associated terrorism with subversive Communist movements in Western Europe and Latin America, along with Islam-inspired movements in the Middle East. So, there may have been some Communist inspiration; Baroness' file card definitely reads more like the resume of a young Leftist rather than a Nazi. But when you look at hooded Cobra Commander and Destro, it's easy to see some sort of Fascist inspiration. Then you have the guys that are strictly mercenary, like Firefly and Zartan, and Major Bludd wreaks of the "soldier of fortune" African bush wars stereotype from the 70's and early 80's. And, finally, Storm Shadow, clearly inspired by Eric Van Lustbader books, Golan-Globus movies, and some of the Stephen Hayes popularity at the time. There was also still that "Yellow Peril" in many people's minds, since the last century revolved mostly around wars in Asia. |
07-12-2018, 07:34 PM | #3 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 4,255
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Hama's a key ingredient, but he's not the whole recipe. A mix of Archie Goodwin, who coined the name, and Hama's writing and Hasbro who further developed the concept & designed characters. It's worth noting that cartoon story editor Buzz Dixon came up with an ideology for Cobra that was never fleshed out on the show for reasons I won't go into.
It's also worth noting the inconsistencies of comic/toys/cartoons/live action movies. Terrorism of the late 60's and 70's had sponsor states, it mostly gradually ended when the states were more concerned about getting foreign aide than helping criminals. And some sponsors of radical marxists were oddly former Nazis or neo-nazis. Carlos the Jackal, a marxist, had a Swiss Nazi sponsor. We see in early Marvel that Libya is pals with Cobra. Hama's early depiction of Cobra, via Springfield, made it cult like. Billy implied that anyone who didn't join Cobra was imprisoned or worse. There was a general atmosphere of hate of outsiders. It reminds me of hearing that there are/were whole communities in the USA controlled by the KKK. Hooded CC's image adds to that...not that Cobra was ever portrayed as racist. Maybe Cobra Commander had a bit of Jim Jones in him, too. Plus various secret societies real and imagined, the Crimson Guard are a mix of "red" sleeper agents and an evil fraternal order (Plus gobs of yuppie satire). But then later, it's all about unscrupulous greed. Something got lost when Cobra was only interested in selling weapons to other extremists, dictators and revolutionaries. Hasbro still pushed the world domination angle, though. Renegades cartoon made Cobra an outright evil corporation with a friendly public face. |
07-12-2018, 07:46 PM | #4 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: VA
Posts: 6,169
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It's definitely inspired by HYDRA.
Frankly, it is basically HYDRA in many depictions. |
07-12-2018, 08:44 PM | #5 |
twitter viper
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: SD
Posts: 4,909
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Hydra was definitely the model pitched by Goodwin, Hama, and refined by Hama and Rudat.
My hypothesis: Cobra is a militia group that is intent on overthrowing the U.S. Government and seizing power forming a new Government. In the cartoon they did exactly that. Cobra decimated G.I.Joe and took over the government. A new dictatorship led by Cobra Commander. (Worlds Without End) In the comics Cobra Commander won the hearts and minds of dissidents, and then brainwashed those who resisted with the Brainwave scanners. (Millville) Wingfield had his own militia group in Montana in issue 4 that the Joes were sent to stop from having nuclear weaponry. He was the budget version of Cobra. A compound full of people training to be soldiers to take over the government. Cobra is an extremely large very well funded grass roots militia group intent on taking over the U.S. I don't recall how prevalent militia groups were in the media (Gordon Kahl was 1983) but there must have been some knowledge, because Hama portrayed militias in issue 4.
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07-12-2018, 08:52 PM | #6 |
Joe Gramps aka Mr H
Join Date: May 2012
Location: NJ ▬▬ι═══════ﺤ
Posts: 16,571
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Quote:
Hydra was definitely the model pitched by Goodwin, Hama, and refined by Hama and Rudat.
My hypothesis: Cobra is a militia group that is intent on overthrowing the U.S. Government and seizing power forming a new Government. In the cartoon they did exactly that. Cobra decimated G.I.Joe and took over the government. A new dictatorship led by Cobra Commander. (Worlds Without End) In the comics Cobra Commander won the hearts and minds of dissidents, and then brainwashed those who resisted with the Brainwave scanners. (Millville) Wingfield had his own militia group in Montana in issue 4 that the Joes were sent to stop from having nuclear weaponry. He was the budget version of Cobra. A compound full of people training to be soldiers to take over the government. Cobra is an extremely large very well funded grass roots militia group intent on taking over the U.S. I don't recall how prevalent militia groups were in the media (Gordon Kahl was 1983) but there must have been some knowledge, because Hama portrayed militias in issue 4.
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07-12-2018, 10:09 PM | #7 |
I LIVE!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Altus, OK
Posts: 6,087
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Cobra, like GI Joe and most other long standing franchises, adapted with the times. So, at varying points...Cobra was part of ANY of those options.
But I view much of Cobra's direction (aside from the clear Hydra foundations) was filtered through concepts of domestic terror groups like the Ku Klux Klan with overtures from the Nationalistic stylings of Nazi Germany and similar fascists. What I've found so scary about Cobra is by how much the current political climate feels like something Cobra would have relished. With Extensive Enterprises providing a cable news service...that's a LOT of influence. And I think that's part of the issue in bringing Cobra and the Joe brand back...if you get too realistic, you start crossing into territory that is going to make some people uncomfortable, if not offended.
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07-12-2018, 10:14 PM | #8 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: VA
Posts: 6,169
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Only IDW would be silly enough to tie GI Joe and Cobra into the current climate. It takes a certain type of, um, bravery to alienate roughly half of your audience (no matter which slant you take).
If you portray Cobra closer to the ARAH cartoon or the HYDRA roots, there's very little chance of it ominously mirroring anyone's dark view of the present. |
07-12-2018, 10:17 PM | #9 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
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Cobra Commander was a disgruntled used car salesman that used an Amway-like multi-level marketing organization to fund his anti-government activities.
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07-20-2018, 04:18 AM | #10 |
retro O-rings, baby!
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 829
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Count me as another proponent of the idea that Cobra’s inspiration is at least as much on the domestic side of “against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”
The 70s were a time when terrorism became a major, high profile problem in Europe, on top of the big problem I’m sure it already was in the Middle East. And then at the end of the decade, the Iranian Hostage Crisis & Desert One fiasco put a spotlight on this for the United States too, even if the situation wasn’t exactly analogous. If the real world parallels for the Joe team are Blue Light and Delta Force (and the Nightstalkers and Devgru and the units of JSOC in general), as well as the Reagan buildup in general, the real world international parallels for Cobra are probably mostly non-state actors like Baader Meinhoff, Abu Nidal, and so on. But then domestically, in Hama comics at least, there is a whole other tradition that is drawn on, which is basically the *reason*, rather than the methods (70s terrorists + Hydra) and visual style (blend of Hydra and Warsaw Pact, with some wildcards, and some locally sourced material like ARs), that makes Cobra what it is. It’s basically the politics of George Wallace and the KKK and their ilk, a politics of resentment that offers a fantasy of violent revenge, plus a vague promise of a future utopia that’s somehow simultaneously an authoritarian’s dream and an anarchist’s paradise. It’s neither the mainstream western conservative idea of combining free markets with traditional interpretations of Christian social values nor the liberal idea of creating a social democracy that mixes expansive social services with libertarian social values — rather, it falls smack in the middle of the populist tradition, placing Cobra Commander as a logical continuation of the sequence of Long/Coughlin/McCarthy/Wallace, among others before and since. And then Cobra supplemented the ideological appeal with offers of security and concrete economic assistance, starting with the pyramid scheme / multilevel marketing approach and ending with all-in cult membership, as well as paramilitary training. In this respect it has similarities with both the right wing militia / survivalist culture and the Marxist terrorist approach, but not necessarily stronger ties than it has to fanatical members of cults or political movements or what have you. The deeper you get, the more you are purported to have physical security, economic security, belonging and purpose, a chance to get revenge on your enemies, and the chance to build the hellscape you dream of. It’s a powerful sales pitch...unfortunately. Basically, to put it in the form of an example, Cobra recruited Archie Bunker by appealing to his social values and sense of grievance, then tried to get Edith to sell its products or attend its nice little weekday luncheons. Pretty soon the family was selling its products, developing the view that real life should be like a Charles Bronson movie with the Archie Bunkers of the world as its improbable stars, hanging out more and more with others of the same outlook, then maybe moving outright to a Cobra town and going from there. So while the methods and visual style are 70s terrorists and associated figures (Firefly = Carlos the Jackal, Destro = South African apartheid arms dealer, Bludd = Rhodesian/South African merc, for some sample guesses) overlain on the general style of Hydra, the ideology is the American populist tradition of Long/Coughlin/McCarthy/Wallace, which of course goes back much further than that too (Jackson). ...Then over time, Cobra picked up more and more 80s movie tycoon supervillian elements associated with big business and the like too. It was always careful to show a combination of good and bad people almost everywhere (Joes vs Jugglers, Magda vs Cobra Commander, and so on), plus some interesting mixes like Destro and Zartan, and (arguably) even Storm Shadow, which was a big reason it was good. It had depth and avoided simple answers. Yet it had a clear point too, and was not nihilistic or relativist, and did not endorse selfishness. Last edited by books; 07-20-2018 at 04:22 AM.. |
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