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08-25-2017, 09:18 AM | #1 |
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So, I'm not so much a Joe collector any more. They kinda... stopped selling them, as we all know. And I don't feel the need to join a collector's club, I'm low on room.
One of my other passions is tabletop wargaming. Warhammer 40k, Frostgrave, Necromunda/Shadow War, Infinity by Corvus Belli, stuff like that. If you've never researched those games, you should. While I loved collecting Joes, I loved even more building an army of dudes and giving them my own preferred color scheme, accessories, and loadout- and then playing an actual game with them against an opponent. A lot pricier than GI Joe, but a lot of fun. If you're unfamiliar with how these things work, it's pretty simple to explain- through measurements, dice rolls, and some basic charts and math- you're simulating a war. Different units and weapons have different capabilities, terrain plays a major role, and knowing what to apply in a situation- all these are elements of tabletop wargaming. Far more complex (and satisfying than a simple board game). So I noticed recently we have a Star Wars tabletop war game. I couldn't help but look and say- "Why has no one tried this with GI Joe?" It wouldn't be hard. GI Joe vs. Cobra might not seem to have as many options as, say, Warhammer 40k where you have the Imperium vs. Craftworld Eldar vs. Tyranids vs. Dark Eldar vs. Chaos vs. Tau vs... you get the idea. But think about it this way: You want to be GI Joes? Cool. You have a good bit of special characters to choose from. Certain Characters are 'leaders' and some are 'solo operatives'. You also have specialized sub-factions: Steel Brigade, Ninja Force, Tiger Force, etc. The 'armies' could have a variety of 'regulars' and you could mix in a limited number of special operatives. Cobra is easy- you've got your basic 'Cobra'; but you've also got Iron Grenadiers, your Python Patrol, your Crimson Strike Force, so on and so forth. Certain characters can only lead certain squads, but they would confer bonuses over to them. Alternatively, a generic 'officer' could lead a squad instead with fewer bonuses, but it would have more weapon options and be cheaper in terms of 'points'. Armies would be balanced by a point-buy system. Obviously a cowardly, ill-trained 'Cobra Trooper' is a cheaper choice than a hardened Cobra Viper- but perhaps quantity is a quality on its own, and you could use more of them. An example of two players' armies would be something like this: GI Joes led by Hawk 2 squads of GI Joe Troopers, led by Stalker and Duke 1 squad of Ninja Force, led by Snake Eyes 1 squad of Steel Brigade led by Steel Brigade Commander 2 Sky Hawk VTOL Cobra led by Cobra Commander 1 squad of Cobra Troopers led by Cobra Officer 1 squad of Cobra Vipers led by Viper Officer 1 squad of Night Creepers led by Night Creeper Leader 1 Squad of Iron Grenadiers led by Destro 1 HISS tank Armies could have restrictions on what they could field, depending on the type of game two players agree upon. If both players wanted, they could do a rumble of only Characters in a skirmish game. Or they could try to throw mobs of troopers at the more combat-effective characters of another army for a 'Hollywood game'. The models could be relatively simple, with focus on different weapon loadouts for customization. Paint them any way you like, within reason (Obviously Tiger Force is gonna need some Tiger Stripes). Options for different 'versions' of characters would be a bonus. So... why isn't this a thing? Would you support this? |
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08-25-2017, 10:15 AM | #2 |
Crimson Guard
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Yes!!!! Over and over again, yes!!
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08-25-2017, 10:29 AM | #3 |
Iron Grenadier
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It would be awesome. And it could be done rather easily, as there are lots of established rules systems already. The only challenge would be making some custom miniatures and vehicles.
You could even do a dungeon crawl type game like Descent or Imperial Assault, where you choose a handful of Joes for your mission, going up against Cobra forces, with Joes earning experience points to upgrade weapons/skills after each mission. |
08-25-2017, 10:43 AM | #4 |
Cobra Interrogator
Join Date: Aug 2015
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There are some games out there like this one:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f78nukkakg...MBAT%201.2.pdf As a rule set it's not bad, but it's not really inspired, either. I've occasionally pondered doing something like this. But if I were to take a swing at writing it, I would want a really unique game system that doesn't ape 40k... Like how Heroclix and Malifaux had some really innovative systems. I think GI Joe also lends itself very well to games that have lots of unique characters. Your example above has lots of troop-builders, which is fine if you want to play a 40k style game. The Joes have comparatively fewer troop-builder characters, and they tend to emphasize the importance of each individual Joe's skills and talents. So I think that a GI Joe game would be better off with small teams (like four to six figures per side) in which every figure has a unique skill set. Also, FWIW: Next year Marauder is releasing a 'tactical RPG.' Not sure what the game will actually be like, but the information we have so far implies that it will use the toys the same way D&D uses miniatures. Might be worth a peek. Last edited by solosam; 08-25-2017 at 10:45 AM.. |
08-25-2017, 11:38 AM | #5 |
Cobra Viper
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There is the GI Joe commando attack board game. It can use your figures because it came with fig stands.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/...ommando-attack I have it, comes with a huge board and diorama like play sets pieces. Combat is with dice and it has a capture the flag scenario. formbx257 did a review video of it too. |
08-25-2017, 12:23 PM | #6 |
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Quote:
I think GI Joe also lends itself very well to games that have lots of unique characters. Your example above has lots of troop-builders, which is fine if you want to play a 40k style game. The Joes have comparatively fewer troop-builder characters, and they tend to emphasize the importance of each individual Joe's skills and talents. So I think that a GI Joe game would be better off with small teams (like four to six figures per side) in which every figure has a unique skill set.
After all, Warhammer 40k has 'Kill-Team' in 7th Edition (and I believe it's easily adapted to 8th). Kill-Team was a way to take a handful of dudes, go full-on Spec Ops with them, and play using the same rules as the regular game- just moving one dude at a time. Quote:
Things like weapon ranges, cover advantages, character skill stats, etc. are what I'm more interested in. Tabletop war games and board games like the one you mentioned are about as different in terms of complexity as, say- Checkers on your iPhone and EVE Online. That's not even an exaggeration- one particular tabletop war game, Flames of War, has rules for wind direction and strength of the wind. While that may seem trivial; it plays a role in things like airborne assaults, smoke, artillery strikes, sniper shots, etc. Example of complexity without using a lot of numbers and percentiles: In simple terms, someone like Snake Eyes is going to be lethal in relatively close range, about 12" away from his target. He could easily smash a Cobra Viper in short range or melee combat. However, Blackout is going to dominate the long-range game and have a better chance of taking him out at extreme long range. Fortunately, Snake Eyes has certain skills that make it a bit harder for someone to shoot him at long range. Alternatively, a squad of Night Creepers might be as lethal in close range (and cost about the same in points) as Snake Eyes. They may be less effective individually, but in tabletop war games- they'd be striking more times than he would, so there's a larger chance one could land a fatal blow- even on the badass Snake Eyes. Now, keep in mind that Snake Eyes is your super-badass. Losing him is going to be devastating to morale. That means any of your Joes in a certain distance may take a penalty or be forced to react a certain way if they fail a dice roll because they've lost him. Losing a squad of Night Creepers might not have the same effect on the Cobras- they're just more faceless goons, they aren't as important as someone like Copperhead or the Baroness. Since we're naming all those characters, there'd always be a trade-off. Sure, you could make an entire roster of named GI Joe characters. Because they're all kind of 'elite' in their own way, and a bit more 'valuable' than the average generic GI Joe Trooper, Steel Brigade trooper, or even a GI Joe Ninja (keep in mind, you'd have to embellish a bit and make some 'generic troop types' like that ninja trooper)- these characters are more expensive in terms of points. Let's just say that Overkill is worth 100 points. However, an individual B.A.T. is worth 25 points. That would mean you could put down 4 B.A.T.s OR Overkill for the same price. Overkill would certainly be a more lethal model on the table, but while less effective- B.A.T.s are shooting more times. And keep in mind, Overkill could operate within the squad of B.A.T.s for a whopping 200 points- but he'll be giving them bonuses because he's their 'leader'. Another fine example would be the Iron Grenadiers. Destro is 100 points, and he can lay down some nasty gunfire. Iron Grenadiers can, too- Though less effective but at 25 points each. Now, for 200 points Destro could lead them. Or, instead of Destro perhaps Metal-Head for 50 points- he won't give the bonuses that Destro has, but he has a different weapon and is a bit of a boost. Or you could have them lead by a generic 'Iron Grenadier Officer'- he won't give them any real bonuses, but he's an extra weapon and a means to lead them effectively. And why leaders? Well, individual troops with no leader tend to be less effective. Every squad would need a leader. Individual operatives, not so much. Depending on the leader, all sorts of things could happen- the unit could maybe fire twice, or need a lower dice roll to hit their enemy because he's calling out the targets, become more fierce in melee combat and strike more often or more effectively, etcetera. That's the beauty of it. It's complex. It takes a long time to learn, and even longer to master. Just think about all the options for factions: Cobra: (A generic, catch-all faction that can use pretty much any 'Cobra' unit) Iron Grenadiers: (Heavily-armed weapon specialists that excel in long-range, hard-hitting combo and holding a position) Dreadnoks: (Fast, mobile, rag-tag cheap 'bikers and gangers' that use all sorts of dirty tricks) Cobra-La: (oh yeah, I went there) Python Patrol: (Cobra Troops that get special bonuses from Camo) Plague Troopers: (Small, Elite teams with superior weapons- almost bridge the gap between "Troops" and "Characters" in terms of efficiency) Joes: (Generic, Catch-All Joes) Battleforce 2000: (High-tech weapons teams that excel at defeating armor) Tiger Force: (Get to use Cobra Vehicles) Ninja Force: (Ninjas- deploy 'hidden' and can 'vanish' and redeploy later) Steel Brigade: (More heavily armed, armored troops) Slaughter's Marauders: (Lacking in sophisticated equipment, yet tough and versatile) You would be able to create your own 'sub-faction' army if you liked, or have several working together, or just go 'generic Joe/Cobra'. Sticking to a specific sub-faction would limit some of your choices, of course- but you'd have bonuses (implied that this sort of team works well with itself, rather than elements outside its unit). I'm not good with numbers, and that's a whole can of worms that is months of balancing... but I think it could be done. Last edited by Baron Samedi; 08-25-2017 at 01:14 PM.. |
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08-25-2017, 02:14 PM | #7 |
Cobra Interrogator
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Here's an idea I was pondering. And this is something I haven't tested at all, so I have no idea if it is any good. I'm just throwing it out there to brainstorm.
Each player has a deck of cards. When one figure attacks another, they both draw a card and play it. Whoever has the higher value wins. (So the opponent suffers injury or their power takes effect or whatever.) Additionally, each player has a number of cards they keep in their hand. They have the option of keeping the card on the table, or swapping it for a card from their hand. If a player really needs to win, he would naturally swap out a low-value card for a higher one. But if he does that too much, he'll end up with a hand full of low-value cards. He could also see a high-value card land on the table, and swap it for a lower-value one. That way, he is basically accepting a degree of failure in exchange for better odds later on. And then we start adding more complexity to it. What if one suit trumps another suit? (Like rock, paper, scissors) For example: We have the rules, "Hearts trump Spades," and "A sword always counts as a Spade." So if the opponent has lots of ninjas, I want to try to fill my hand with Hearts. If I have lots of ninjas, I want to get rid of my Spades quickly because I don't need them. (Or if I see my opponent is stockpiling a certain suit, I want to start changing my strategy to counter that.) And we could have special abilities that impact these things. For example: "Cobra Commander has the special ability to reverse trumps." So a player sees his enemy has lots of swords (Spades) and he fills his hand with Hearts, expecting to trump the enemy. But suddenly Cobra Commander shows up with his special ability and now Spades trump Hearts. Disaster! You could go on all day layering the complexity in a system like that. Spend a card, gain a card, change values or suits, change trumps, play two cards instead of one, wild cards, etc. You could have special powers that only activate if you play a certain card. Stuff like that. That would be a game I'd be interested in. |
08-25-2017, 03:35 PM | #8 |
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Quote:
One of the main issues with it, is that it puts every 'dude' on the same playing field. In all honesty, putting Snake Eyes on par with a Cobra Trooper might cause some screeching. There's also a thing to consider with card mechanics- it leaves a LOT to random chance. There has to be a considerable balance between 'control' and 'chance'. I'll cite you an example from Warhammer 40k: "Deep Strike" was a special ability that basically meant a dude or a squad of dudes drops in from parachutes, teleports in, pops out of hiding, or something to that effect. Essentially, you picked a spot on the table and put your dude there and said "that's where I want to land"... but, there was the 'random' part of it. You had to roll a special die called a 'scatter die'. 2 of 6 sides were 'bullseye'. The others were arrows. Whichever direction the arrow pointed, you rolled 2 regular 6-sided dice. Your unit scattered that many inches. And if it went off the table, into another unit, or into terrain... well, bad things could happen. Like- your entire unit is dead. Factor in the fact that many times you had to roll BEFORE doing that to see if those guys could come in at all on your turn. Now it's... really random and a lot left to chance. While it sounds fun and interesting, there was too much random chance to it. A squad that you heavily invested in and were counting on to come in and reinforce you or take out a big nasty target were not delayed, not landing where you needed them, or worse- gone. A new edition changed all that. Now you just pick the spot where they land, and they land there- as long as it's a certain distance away from the enemy- making it easy enough to shoot them, but harder to charge in and beat the crap out of them in melee or hit them with nasty short-range weapons like grenades. Dice mechanics work a lot better, and to be perfectly honest- dice cheating is a lot harder than card cheating. I work part-time at a gaming store for extra money, and all the games that involve card mechanics require sleeves to play... and even then, we still get people who can creatively mark them and cheat. While you might think little games like this are all good fun and cheating would be absurd... it happens more than you thnk. A LOT MORE. One system I'd like to take a look at using is a D10 system. Those dice, while you hardly see them used any more- are still in production and are still used in a lot of RPG's. An example of a combat mechanic: A Viper shoots at Snake Eyes. The Viper's Marksmanship skill is 6. Therefore, the Viper must roll a 6 or below to score a hit on Snake Eyes. However, Snake Eyes is a Ninja and has the 'Agile' special ability. That makes it harder for him to be shot because he's moving so fast or whatever. That adds a penalty of -1 to any shots made against him. Now the Viper's player must roll a 5 or below to hit Snake Eyes. If Snake Eyes were behind a small wall that concealed at least half of his body, that would be an additional -1, meaning now the Viper player must roll a 4 or less on the 10-sided dice. The Viper has a LMG, which allows him to make 3 shots if he doesn't move, 1 if he did move this turn. So he rolls 3 10-sided dice. 7, 2, and 5. One of those shots hit Snake Eyes. Snake Eyes is hit, but that doesn't mean he's dead. He is still wearing some kind of body army, albeit light armor. He might be able to survive. Snake Eyes has an armor value of 4. His armor is lightweight and made for ninja stuff, so it's not really as good as the Viper's body armor. Snake eyes must roll a 4 or less... except there's a penalty with rifle rounds- it's a -1. Snake Eyes' player has to roll a 3 or less for his armor to stop the round. Snake Eyes rolls... and he gets a 9. Well, crap. He takes a wound. Fortunately, Snake Eyes is a tough character and has 3 wounds he can take before he 'dies'. He is down to 2 wounds now. After this, it is the Joes' player's turn. One of his actions is to move Snake Eyes into melee combat with the Viper. Snake Eyes has a movement value of 8". The Viper is about 14 inches away. Snake Eyes' player declares he wants to move into melee range. He rolls a 10-sided dice and adds the result to 8". He rolls a 9, easily landing him in melee combat. Snake Eyes has a Melee Skill of 9, and if he moves he can strike twice- four times if he didn't move. So Snake Eyes' player rolls 2 10-sided dice, getting a 7 and an 8. Both strikes hit the Viper. Snake Eyes is armed with the Arashikage Sword, which is a -3 to armor because of its sharpness. The Viper's body armor is 6, but now he must roll a 3 or less- TWICE. He rolls, and sadly- he rolls a 9 and 6. The Viper has 1 wound, being a basic 'grunt' character. Since he sustained two wounds- he is certainly dead. That's just an example. There's other things you can do with skirmish games, Infinity is one of my favorites as it has an 'action pool' that you can use, and in YOUR turn your opponent can react to what you do. |
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09-10-2017, 01:22 AM | #9 |
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Some wargamers do make things
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09-10-2017, 01:24 AM | #10 |
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