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06-29-2009, 02:08 PM | #101 |
Full of Love and C-4
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,763
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its depends
Chain of Command normally run from officers, warrant officers, ncos and finally enlisted because of Gi Joe command command runs different Steeler tried to stop an operation but Stalker was in charge, so while steeler is a officer and stalker a sergeant , stalker outrank steeler because stalker was in charge on the operation now duke holds a higher position in gi joe then flint so duke outranks flint , in tiger force flint outranks duke , because flint is team leader(field commander) of tiger force. somehow someone trying to pull rank just to pull rank unless you have a great reason , you'll find yourself in hawk's office and if you still on the team after that then you still have to deal with all of your team mates who now want nothing to do with you and end up getting hawk's coffee for the rest of your time in gi joe, and god help you if you screw that up |
06-29-2009, 02:11 PM | #102 |
Banned, haha just kidding
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: I don't like duke.
Posts: 2,222
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Well... umm... ok...
Duke is a looser |
06-29-2009, 02:15 PM | #103 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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The problem is the misuse of "outrank". Sgt Stalker doesn't "outrank" Lt Steeler. He may be in charge of his squad and have final authority over it in the field but he can't approach Lt Steeler and "order" him to maneuver his tank platoon, which Steeler is in charge of. Steeler may not be able to tell Stalker how to run his unit and employ his men, but that doesn't mean Stalker outranks him.
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06-29-2009, 02:35 PM | #104 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Also, losing sight of the fact that Duke isn't the Joe Team's Top Sargeant, he's outranked by alot. Big Brawler is an E-8, Skydive is an E-8 and Altitude from Sky Patrol is an E-9 and the Sargeant Major of the Army (which is a singular rank).
YOJOE.COM | Filecard Gallery - Altitude
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06-29-2009, 02:39 PM | #105 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Jacksonville
Posts: 1,337
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So far Rocky's explanation is the only one that really makes sense. The ranks probably refer to what they were before they joined GI Joe. Heck, Shipwreck wasn't even active duty when he joined. If he was, then why the hell was he in a cobra bar, in the middle of a desert, selling rides to folks trying to avoid Cobra and, why would he ask Flint if he could join up? Other folks like Quick Kick weren't even in the military when they joined. Jinx was a ninja, Taurus was an ex circus acrobat, Red Dog was an ex football player, Mercer was a Cobra Viper, Big Lob was a basketball player, etc etc etc. Makes sense that GI Joe has it's own command structure that has nothing to do with the normal military command structure we know. The only problem with this is in the movie Falcon tells Duke he's an officer and he's pulling rank and later on Flint let's Falcon take command when Flint is supposed to be the third in command of the Joe team. That movie just screwed up so many things I think it's best to just pretend it doesn't exist.
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06-29-2009, 02:47 PM | #106 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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The cartoon screwed up so many things that it's best to think it doesn't exist and has no impact on rankings, etc...
Everyone could fly Skystrikers and Dragonflys for god's sake. If anyone seriously thinks the cartoon accurately reflected anything... ya need help Hell, Roadblock, Airtight and Footloose flew a transport plane in one episode. It never does say that Big Lob didn't come from active service, same with Jinx. So using the cartoon in a discussion about rank doesn't work.
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06-29-2009, 08:53 PM | #107 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TX
Posts: 138
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Quote:
Do you have a source for this? Being in the military myself, I have a feeling you misunderstood this position.
I'm an officer myself, and the only time an NCO has been able to give me orders is back when I was on course. That being said, even now there are very senior NCOs in positions of more responsibility (Duke would probably be a good example of this), but they've never ordered me around and have always called me sir. Quote:
This is a drastic misunderstanding of how the chain of command works. The senior theater NCO (presumably a Command Sergeant Major) does not command officers in any way, shape or form (unless it's simply relaying orders from the overall theater commander). He may indeed answer only to the theater commander and deputy commander, but that does not give him command authority over everyone else in-theater.
The purpose of senior NCOs at that level is to act as an advisor and administrator to the commanders. They will liaise with the other senior NCOs in theater in order to carry out the Commanders' policies and orders, but trying to "command" officers would not be any sort of standard policy. The officers may do well to listen to his advice, but he can't force them to. The Colbert Report Full Episode | Thursday Jun 11 2009 | Comedy Central Especially the interview there. "Command Sergeant Major Frank A. Grippe orders his NCOs to do the "Hokey Pokey" and sing the Army song. (06:37)" In the interview, it's stated he's 3rd in command of the soldiers in Iraq. And yes, he even orders around regular officers. Now, presumably, he's not put into field command positions. His main task is to relay all the info between all the various divisions and make sure everyone's working on the same plans, or at least that's what it seems it is. So if he were to hit a battlefield, things might be different. But the fact remains, at least in theory, the dude's able to command anyone, in Iraq, that aren't his direct bosses. Now, give him that same special dispensation, but with field command, and you basically got Duke. According to rank and paygrade, Flint outranks Duke (and gets paid better). With special dispensation and standing orders, Duke could lead the whole team. Because, otherwise, BOTH Flint and Duke (Warrant Officer and Enlisted, respectively) would be having to obey Lt. Falcon (actual Officer). |
06-29-2009, 08:58 PM | #108 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hisstank Wrestling Federation!
Posts: 17,654
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Maybe Duke was accepted to OCS after his filecard was made.
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06-29-2009, 09:01 PM | #109 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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GI Joe is a military unit. Refer back to the early Marvel comics. So why wouldn't they use a similar ranking structure? Why would they recruit guys that were E4s and make them leaders above officers? That doesn't make any sense. The toy designers created GI Joe to resemble a company-size outfit with brigade-size support in the form of armor, air support, artillery, etc. Unless, it was written somewhere in the comics or file card (which it wasn't) that GI Joe doesn't use traditional military rank to establish the chain of command, then there's no reason to assume otherwise.
Here's a little info direct from the Army Field Manual to clear up the confusion about what a First Sgt, like Duke, does and where he ranks in the command structure in a company. "c. First Sergeant. (1) He is the senior NCO and normally the most experienced soldier in the company. He is the commander's primary tactical advisor and expert on individual and NCO skills. He assists the commander in planning, coordinating, and supervising all activities that support the unit mission. He operates where the commander directs or where his duties require him... The chain of command provides for the succession of command should leaders become casualties. The normal succession of command in the rifle company is commander, XO, platoon leaders by seniority, other combat arms officers, 1SG, and NCOs by seniority." Last edited by Tanksmasher; 06-29-2009 at 09:14 PM.. |
06-29-2009, 09:14 PM | #110 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Duke, first of all, is not a Command Sgt Major (E9). He's a First Sgt (E8). And even if he was a CSM, CSMs are not third in command.
Another excerpt describing the CSM's duty from the FM: "The CSM is the senior NCO in the unit. He acts in the name of the commander when dealing with other NCOs in the unit and advises the commander concerning the enlisted ranks. Though he is not an administrator, he must understand the administrative, logistical, and operational functions of the unit to which he is assigned. Since he is normally the most experienced soldier in the unit, his attention should be focused on operations and training and on how well the commander's decisions and policies are being carried out. He is the senior enlisted trainer in the organization. He works closely with company commanders when reaching and training first sergeants and platoon sergeants. He maintains close contact with subordinate and attached unit NCOs." |
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