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05-18-2017, 02:13 PM | #101 |
A Cimmerian
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mountain of Power
Posts: 11,066
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Here's all I know- if Paw Patrol was what was on offer when I was a kid, I'd be avoiding toys at all costs, too.
I think there's power in the Joe brand that's simply being ignored by Hasbro. Kids are into Star Wars and Marvel- those lines do well enough (whether it be kid or collector, but wisdom suggests it has to be both). But you can't use the Force or have Super Powers- but you sure as Hell can join the military and defend the world from Evil (politics aside-I'm speaking ideally as a child). Nothing else offers that in the same real-world way. I know that appealed to me as a kid- as much as I liked Star Wars and loved Marvel, joe was always my soft spot. But there's nothing for kids to get their teeth into, Joe wise. Maybe that's simplifying it, but I don't think we can know because Hasbro is fucking it all up. |
05-18-2017, 02:49 PM | #102 |
Bill Cosplay
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Staying clear of knee-jerk nerds.
Posts: 5,910
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Quote:
Here's all I know- if Paw Patrol was what was on offer when I was a kid, I'd be avoiding toys at all costs, too.
I think there's power in the Joe brand that's simply being ignored by Hasbro. Kids are into Star Wars and Marvel- those lines do well enough (whether it be kid or collector, but wisdom suggests it has to be both). But you can't use the Force or have Super Powers- but you sure as Hell can join the military and defend the world from Evil (politics aside-I'm speaking ideally as a child). Nothing else offers that in the same real-world way. I know that appealed to me as a kid- as much as I liked Star Wars and loved Marvel, joe was always my soft spot. But there's nothing for kids to get their teeth into, Joe wise. Maybe that's simplifying it, but I don't think we can know because Hasbro is fucking it all up. My son, for instance, has three or four friends who all have or have had one parent serving overseas. I got him into G.I. Joe and he loved it, but had a hard time finding friends who wanted to play with those toys with him. I remember hearing one of his friends saying, "My dad flies one of those, it's his job. I've seen the real one." He was talking about a helicopter. What these kids know of the military is that it is very, very real in a way that impacts their daily lives. So, playing military for them is touchy. They don't mind running around, blasting each other with Nerf darts or Super-Soakers, but it seemed like the last thing they wanted to do was "play army guy." Usually, they just mixed the Joes in with Star Wars stuff and played Star Wars with them. Star Wars was escapism to them, while G.I. Joe wasn't. I mean, why would they want to play with something they live everyday? |
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05-18-2017, 03:42 PM | #103 |
A Makeupless Clown
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,270
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Quote:
Fantasy plays a huge role in what today's kids dig. I can't say it's a larger role than it played for us as children, but it heavily outweighs "realism." I suppose it's always been that way though. G.I. Joe may have been more "real" than Star Wars, but for most of us, it was still pure escapist fantasy. Part of the problem for G.I. Joe now is that a significant number of kids today have either had to live large stretches of their lives without a service-member parent or have friends with an absentee service-member parent. They know all about the reality of the modern military.
My son, for instance, has three or four friends who all have or have had one parent serving overseas. I got him into G.I. Joe and he loved it, but had a hard time finding friends who wanted to play with those toys with him. I remember hearing one of his friends saying, "My dad flies one of those, it's his job. I've seen the real one." He was talking about a helicopter. What these kids know of the military is that it is very, very real in a way that impacts their daily lives. So, playing military for them is touchy. They don't mind running around, blasting each other with Nerf darts or Super-Soakers, but it seemed like the last thing they wanted to do was "play army guy." Usually, they just mixed the Joes in with Star Wars stuff and played Star Wars with them. Star Wars was escapism to them, while G.I. Joe wasn't. I mean, why would they want to play with something they live everyday? According to this post from historyinpieces.com (1954-2014): Quote:
Originally Posted by historyinpieces.com
Data sourced from the Defense Manpower Data Center, Office of the Secretary of Defense, U.S. Department of Defense. Figures through 1976 are for the count at June 30 of that year. Figures for 1977 through 2013 are for September 30 of that year. Figures for 2014 are through March 3
The level of military personnel in raw numbers (not per-capita) has fallen sharply since the late 60's, and has fallen still more (albeit less sharply) since the 80's (when GI Joe was in its prime). In terms of per-capita, I'm too lazy to find one that reaches back to the 80's, but the point is, there are fewer enlistees than ever, and fewer still when adjusted per-capita. There are actually fewer children who would know an active duty military enlistee now than there were in our day. So, take that for what you will, folks.
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05-18-2017, 04:08 PM | #104 |
Bill Cosplay
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Staying clear of knee-jerk nerds.
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Not to pick on you, specifically, but I have seen people on the 'Tank saying stuff like this in a lot of the "Why GI Joe is dying/How do we save GI Joe" threads. I think it's something people say without actually examining, and I think it's wrong.
According to this post from historyinpieces.com (1954-2014): The level of military personnel in raw numbers (not per-capita) has fallen sharply since the late 60's, and has fallen still more (albeit less sharply) since the 80's (when GI Joe was in its prime). In terms of per-capita, I'm too lazy to find one that reaches back to the 80's, but the point is, there are fewer enlistees than ever, and fewer still when adjusted per-capita. There are actually fewer children who would know an active duty military enlistee now than there were in our day. So, take that for what you will, folks. Besides, I'm just speaking from my experience with my son and his friends. |
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05-18-2017, 07:08 PM | #105 |
A Makeupless Clown
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,270
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Yep...except now it's the reservists who have been called up. These aren't necessarily career military, but weekend warriors with families who didn't plan on lengthy actions overseas, let alone multiple tours.
Besides, I'm just speaking from my experience with my son and his friends. While it's unlikely those were all equally distributed over the roughly 16 years in question, that still averages only 48,750 deployments per year. That's not far off from Desert Storm numbers. Deployments usually run 9 months to 15 months I think (on this point I admit ignorance). So basically, I think those are per-year, give or take. That still leaves the overall number way below what it was in the 80's and 90's. I'd also guess that some of those are multiple tours for individuals which would reduce the distribution of kids who know an active soldier. But even if not, none of that makes up for the ~500,000 greater number of active military we had in the 80's. Any way you slice it, it just seems really unlikely that your particular experience is one that is shared by society generally. That's not to say the kids in your neighborhood aren't averse to Joe for the reasons you assume (maybe that's EXACTLY their feeling - who knows?), but just to say that even if they are, there are fewer kids today who would have that connection to get in the way of Joe toys in the first place.
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05-18-2017, 08:07 PM | #106 |
Bill Cosplay
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Staying clear of knee-jerk nerds.
Posts: 5,910
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Quote:
You're right that reservists aren't counted in those figures for the present time, but they aren't counted for any other period in the past either. Take 1990's Desert Storm, there were at least 47,000 mobilizations of reservists that year alone (I didn't take the time to do all the math, but you can see 47k easily). according to CNN there have been 780,000 overseas reservist deployments since 9/11/2001 (sourced from a 2017 National Guard posture statement stating: "With nearly 780,000 individual overseas mobilizations since 9/11, the National Guard has proven, time and again, its readiness and warfighting capabilities." - it's at the bottom right of page 4).
While it's unlikely those were all equally distributed over the roughly 16 years in question, that still averages only 48,750 deployments per year. That's not far off from Desert Storm numbers. Deployments usually run 9 months to 15 months I think (on this point I admit ignorance). So basically, I think those are per-year, give or take. That still leaves the overall number way below what it was in the 80's and 90's. I'd also guess that some of those are multiple tours for individuals which would reduce the distribution of kids who know an active soldier. But even if not, none of that makes up for the ~500,000 greater number of active military we had in the 80's. Any way you slice it, it just seems really unlikely that your particular experience is one that is shared by society generally. That's not to say the kids in your neighborhood aren't averse to Joe for the reasons you assume (maybe that's EXACTLY their feeling - who knows?), but just to say that even if they are, there are fewer kids today who would have that connection to get in the way of Joe toys in the first place. |
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05-19-2017, 08:04 AM | #107 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 562
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Quote:
As I said, as a parent of a son whose friends have been affected by deployment, I've seen firsthand their lack of interest in military toys. Is that reality widespread? Chances are, yes. I don't live in a vacuum, nor in an area particularly crowded with service-members.
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05-19-2017, 08:27 AM | #108 |
A Cimmerian
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mountain of Power
Posts: 11,066
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Quote:
Fantasy plays a huge role in what today's kids dig. I can't say it's a larger role than it played for us as children, but it heavily outweighs "realism." I suppose it's always been that way though. G.I. Joe may have been more "real" than Star Wars, but for most of us, it was still pure escapist fantasy. Part of the problem for G.I. Joe now is that a significant number of kids today have either had to live large stretches of their lives without a service-member parent or have friends with an absentee service-member parent. They know all about the reality of the modern military.
My son, for instance, has three or four friends who all have or have had one parent serving overseas. I got him into G.I. Joe and he loved it, but had a hard time finding friends who wanted to play with those toys with him. I remember hearing one of his friends saying, "My dad flies one of those, it's his job. I've seen the real one." He was talking about a helicopter. What these kids know of the military is that it is very, very real in a way that impacts their daily lives. So, playing military for them is touchy. They don't mind running around, blasting each other with Nerf darts or Super-Soakers, but it seemed like the last thing they wanted to do was "play army guy." Usually, they just mixed the Joes in with Star Wars stuff and played Star Wars with them. Star Wars was escapism to them, while G.I. Joe wasn't. I mean, why would they want to play with something they live everyday? |
05-21-2017, 12:21 AM | #109 |
Sergeant
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 733
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No, it is not time for GI Joe to end. Star Wars succeeds because kids/adults alike can get new stories and a constant stream of characters. The last time I checked the US Military was still popular with the public and most Americans have served or had a family member that served this country. All the Joe brand has to do is make the connection with people's personal experiences and the toys. It's not that hard
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05-21-2017, 01:34 PM | #110 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Eaton, OH
Posts: 200
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No. G.I. Joe should exist but more needs done 27th it inn terms of media. A video game done well is probably essential.
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