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05-18-2009, 05:57 AM | #11 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
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What Hasbro ultimately has to recognize is that GI Joe, as an intellectual property, already has real commercial value and pop culture cachet apart from the toys.
From reading their various replies to the various Q & As posted on this site and others, it seems like Hasbro views the potential of GI Joe in a somewhat limited perspective. To me, it reads like they're thinking about reviving GI Joe in an ass-backwards way, banking on the success of new media (Resolute and the upcoming live-action film) to drive the sales of toys. You ask me, that seems to be an awfully expensive way to advertise toys. Combined production costs for the Resolute and the live-action film probably cost as much, if not more than production costs for the recent 25th Anniversary line of figures. The way I see it, the "popular culture" aspect and the media potential of GI Joe far outstrips its current significance as a toy line. Ideally, Hasbro would conduct its own property development projects but the company not being a significant player in the field of IP and media development, they should start licensing out the development of characters again in a big way. GI Joe would not have been the success it was in the 1980s without the combined media presence of the Marvel comic books and the cartoons (for a time, GI Joe was far and away the best-selling monthly comic book of the 1980s, outperforming established top-sellers like Uncanny X-Men and Batman for at least a couple of years). Hasbro needs to focus on new media development again the way they invested in GI Joe comics and animation in the 1980s. I'm not just talking about comics and cartoons. They need to create an internet presence worthy of the property, invest in solid stand-alone video games whose potential success aren't necessarily tied to the fortunes of other projects. GI Joe-themed media and licensing ventures don't have to be trumped up advertisements for the toys. They can be treated as end-products in and of themselves. Because like it or not, GI Joe is no longer just a toy and it shouldn't be marketed and developed as if it were just another physical object. The intellectual property that is GI Joe, the themes, character archetypes that it represents, can find expression in more than just molded plastic. |
05-18-2009, 06:08 AM | #12 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oxnard, CA
Posts: 37
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I remember the commercials, books, cartoons I mean G.I. Joe was everywhere. They were so much that even before customs were customs as kids we just switched parts for fun. Sometimes even water dunking or burying them!(I couldn't do it now) I for one would love to see some more media pushes.
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05-18-2009, 06:44 AM | #13 |
Crimson Nerd
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,578
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Quote:
What Hasbro ultimately has to recognize is that GI Joe, as an intellectual property, already has real commercial value and pop culture cachet apart from the toys.
From reading their various replies to the various Q & As posted on this site and others, it seems like Hasbro views the potential of GI Joe in a somewhat limited perspective. To me, it reads like they're thinking about reviving GI Joe in an ass-backwards way, banking on the success of new media (Resolute and the upcoming live-action film) to drive the sales of toys. You ask me, that seems to be an awfully expensive way to advertise toys. Combined production costs for the Resolute and the live-action film probably cost as much, if not more than production costs for the recent 25th Anniversary line of figures. The way I see it, the "popular culture" aspect and the media potential of GI Joe far outstrips its current significance as a toy line. Ideally, Hasbro would conduct its own property development projects but the company not being a significant player in the field of IP and media development, they should start licensing out the development of characters again in a big way. GI Joe would not have been the success it was in the 1980s without the combined media presence of the Marvel comic books and the cartoons (for a time, GI Joe was far and away the best-selling monthly comic book of the 1980s, outperforming established top-sellers like Uncanny X-Men and Batman for at least a couple of years). Hasbro needs to focus on new media development again the way they invested in GI Joe comics and animation in the 1980s. I'm not just talking about comics and cartoons. They need to create an internet presence worthy of the property, invest in solid stand-alone video games whose potential success aren't necessarily tied to the fortunes of other projects. GI Joe-themed media and licensing ventures don't have to be trumped up advertisements for the toys. They can be treated as end-products in and of themselves. Because like it or not, GI Joe is no longer just a toy and it shouldn't be marketed and developed as if it were just another physical object. The intellectual property that is GI Joe, the themes, character archetypes that it represents, can find expression in more than just molded plastic. Beyond that, what do you think the movie, the new IDW comic book, Resolute and (looking further back) Sigma 6 are/were? All cross-media attempts to enhance the "intellectual property" of Joe, most of which are licensed out to other companies (Hasbro isn't funding the movie, Paramount is). Throwing out fancy websites and video games is all well and good, but there has to be a market to pick up those video games, too. Unless the video game itself is of absolutely stellar quality (a highly, highly dubious proposition when it comes to licensed properties of any type), it's likely to do more harm than good. Nevermind that websites and video games cost money, too. It's easy to talk about developing "new properties" when in our heads all those "new properties" will be perfect and beloved by all. But that's not likely to be the case. Beyond that, G.I. Joe has always primarily been a toy property, and likely always will. It's kinda the whole point of its' existence as a brand. I think you're deeply overestimating its' "pop culture" stake...or at least mistaking the nature of it: Once again, to most non-fans, G.I. Joe is a "Knowing is Half the Battle" joke, "Village People with guns" or an appearance by a Latta-esque Cobra Commander on Family Guy. Last edited by Jmacq1; 05-18-2009 at 06:46 AM.. |
05-18-2009, 02:10 PM | #14 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
That'd all be well and good if G.I. Joe's "pop culture cachet" wasn't primarily as a punchline...
... Beyond that, G.I. Joe has always primarily been a toy property, and likely always will. It's kinda the whole point of its' existence as a brand. I think you're deeply overestimating its' "pop culture" stake...or at least mistaking the nature of it: Once again, to most non-fans, G.I. Joe is a "Knowing is Half the Battle" joke, "Village People with guns" or an appearance by a Latta-esque Cobra Commander on Family Guy. When I think about it, my interest in GI Joe as a brand only extends as far as it resonates with the characters of Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow, Duke, Destro, Zartan, etc. as they were originally depicted in the associated media of the 1980s. In that sense, I care more for the themes and characters associated with GI Joe than the brand or the toys themselves. And I think a lot of non-fans can probably be made to care about those themes and characters without having to buy into the toy collecting or toy customizing hobby. A good example of how cashing in on an IP's licensing and new media potential can revive a property's fortunes is what Marvel Comics did to bring itself out of bankruptcy in the earlier part of this decade. What the company's leadership realized was that they were no longer making money off of their primary revenue stream (the business of making and selling comic books) for whatever reason. In fact, nobody was making any significant money in the comic book publishing arena. So they decided to re-focus their energy into intellectual property licensing and development. Their characters may not have had any significant commercial value with their existence primarily restricted in the shrinking world of direct market comic book shops, but there was a huge untapped market out there of people who were uninterested in comics, but were potentially interested in the characters that populated them. So instead of focusing on the traditional role of publishing comics and hoping that comics sales would keep the company salient, Marvel started an independent unit (called Marvel Characters, if I recall correctly) in charge of licensing and media development and it's been an unmitigated success. It's interesting how a company that most still think of as a "comic book company" makes the bulk of its money in licensing: Marvel Entertainment/Marvel Enterprises segment revenue share, 2005 to 2007 I don't see why Hasbro can't do the same, at least in terms of a widely recognized property like GI Joe. Like Marvel, they can probably gain some measure of success by thinking out of the box and not just viewing their characters as static "comic book characters" (or in Hasbro's case, "toy characters") that live or die by the sales of their traditional associated product (comics in the case of Marvel, toys in the case of Hasbro). Last edited by zuludelta; 05-18-2009 at 02:31 PM.. Reason: edited for clarity |
05-18-2009, 02:42 PM | #15 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 3,040
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If the movie is a smash success I don't think Joe will be going anywhere for awhile. The market will be flooded with product and we'll all be happy and continue to buy all the repaints and whatever VvV stuff Hasbro pulls out of the vaults right???
If the movie flops it could mean DANGER...I don't think Joe product will ever go away entirely (I mean Joe IS an Icon)....he might go away for a bit only to come back relaunched in a different scale/format.
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05-18-2009, 02:59 PM | #16 |
Crimson Nerd
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,578
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Quote:
I don't know. Personally, I feel that the 1980s-era GI Joe has been commercially viable for as long as it has been not because of the toys per se, but because of the characters and the mythos that were built around the toys in the associated media. Tying the property's visibility intrinsically to toy production and sales limits what can be done with it and makes it subject to the whims of toy market forces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuludelta
When I think about it, my interest in GI Joe as a brand only extends as far as it resonates with the characters of Snake-Eyes, Storm Shadow, Duke, Destro, Zartan, etc. as they were originally depicted in the associated media of the 1980s. In that sense, I care more for the themes and characters associated with GI Joe than the brand or the toys themselves. And I think a lot of non-fans can probably be made to care about those themes and characters without having to buy into the toy collecting or toy customizing hobby.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zuludelta
A good example of how cashing in on an IP's licensing and new media potential can revive a property's fortunes is what Marvel Comics did to bring itself out of bankruptcy in the earlier part of this decade. What the company's leadership realized was that they were no longer making money off of their primary revenue stream (the business of making and selling comic books) for whatever reason. In fact, nobody was making any significant money in the comic book publishing arena. So they decided to re-focus their energy into intellectual property licensing and development. Their characters may not have had any significant commercial value with their existence primarily restricted in the shrinking world of direct market comic book shops, but there was a huge untapped market out there of people who were uninterested in comics, but were potentially interested in the characters that populated them.
So instead of focusing on the traditional role of publishing comics and hoping that comics sales would keep the company salient, Marvel started an independent unit (called Marvel Characters, if I recall correctly) in charge of licensing and media development and it's been an unmitigated success. It's interesting how a company that most still think of as a "comic book company" makes the bulk of its money in licensing: Marvel Entertainment/Marvel Enterprises segment revenue share, 2005 to 2007 I don't see why Hasbro can't do the same, at least in terms of a widely recognized property like GI Joe. Like Marvel, they can probably gain some measure of success by thinking out of the box and not just viewing their characters as static "comic book characters" (or in Hasbro's case, "toy characters") that live or die by the sales of their traditional associated product (comics in the case of Marvel, toys in the case of Hasbro). I don't know if you're just not "up" on Hasbro's doings or what, but Hasbro's been doing exactly what you're talking about over the last year or three, primarily starting with the Transformers film: They've been licensing their properties like crazy...to the point where "Battleship" and "Monopoly" movies are in the works. To be honest, I don't think Hasbro views G.I. Joe (or any of its' properties, really) as narrowly as you think they do. They would no doubt love it to be a multi-media juggernaut like you imply...the problem is that so far their attempts to do so have failed. The movie and its' tie ins are yet another attempt. You can't create cross-media success overnight. Hasbro licensed the G.I. Joe IP to Paramount to make a movie, Hasbro didn't fund the movie themselves. Last edited by Jmacq1; 05-18-2009 at 03:02 PM.. |
05-18-2009, 03:14 PM | #17 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Oh well. Agree to disagree then?
I just don't see any of the GI Joe media Hasbro is cross-promoting as anything more than token attempts at maintaining a media presence. Maybe they are putting in more than a token effort into these things, but I'm just not seeing it reflected in the product or in the marketplace. I'm not saying that Hasbro dump the toy production aspect. All I'm saying (at least initially, until I digressed ) is that thinking that the success of the film will drive toy sales isn't a given (I have a sneaking suspicion that the markets for the toys and the movie will be demographically distinct in many ways) and that having a media development and licensing unit that operates with some degree of independence from the concerns of their toy retailing business would be a good idea. EDIT: Good point about the possibility of my opinion being in the minority re: fans' emotional and/or nostalgic attachment to the characters vs. attachment to the toys. It's only when I signed up on these forums that I started noticing that there seem to be more GI Joe fans interested in the idea of the toys than in the idea of the characters behind them. I (and the Joe fans I converse with), past a certain point (I guess 1989 or so), were always more interested in the comics and the characters, I think, than the toys. I still maintain though, that it would be easier to get the older non-fan or lapsed fan interested in the GI Joe characters and the GI Joe stories than to get them interested in the GI Joe toys and that seems to be the missing element in Hasbro's attempts to revitalize the property. Last edited by zuludelta; 05-18-2009 at 03:33 PM.. |
05-18-2009, 10:57 PM | #18 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 2,063
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Side note: Polite, intelligent discussion about our IP. Woot.
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05-18-2009, 11:06 PM | #19 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: May 2008
Location: michigan
Posts: 4,470
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i almost feel like hasbro is really testing the waters with gijoe and have been since the return of gijoe, like they started with original 25th line as a tribute to collectors and then we were so stoked they kept producing, and now they are doing the whole movie thing and still adding a few figs here and there for us. im really wondering where this line is going to go.
i personally think it all depends on what sells the best obviously but they really do want to get a new generation into gijoe, then mabe finally down the road if they get a new generation, they will eventually split the line like they have with transformers, one line for kids and one line for us adults. i would love a call of duty/ halo style form of gijoe video game, i think that would really be a way for hasbro to sink their teeth into the new generation instead of doing a video game based off the movie. more kids play video games now a days and that would really hype up their enthusiasm i think. draw them into the toys. either way weather i disagree with hasbro's strategies or not, i think they are really trying to market gijoe to the full extent. i just hope they dont forget about all of us who love the original stuff so much.
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05-18-2009, 11:35 PM | #20 |
Green Shirt
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 104
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we often forget that the gi joe mythos is basically a giant toy commercial in itself, IMHO Hasbro should be making kick ass toys that all the kids want to play with then use the toys as a backbone of thier multimedia ventures. what i personally think is missing is not a crazy action packed movie but true old school toy advertisements, hype the kids up and get them excited in a quick time frame rather than make them sit through a 2 hour long movie, let the kids use there imaginations to make thier own story. way back when Joe wasn't all that complicated, you would sit for a half hour after school and wach the latest adventure, then you would go off to creat your own with the joes you had.
just my 2 cents |
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