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10-20-2010, 02:07 AM | #97741 |
FEED ME MORE!
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Korugar, Space Sector 1417
Posts: 8,930
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wow, I'm gone for awhile because people aren't posting and what do I get? lolz
__________________
I <3 LJ, Chari, Phoenix, Sweetness, and the Skittles Queen Lady D owner of page 9301 of GI Joe, Monkeytown RIP Dark Songstress, Gyre-Viper, samantha Queen Charijoe's #1 Fan/champion Rising_Phoenix2's lackey TofuNinja's genin Sole Owner of Tali's Lab Total Forum Game kills:18 |
10-20-2010, 06:26 AM | #97742 |
The Ruiner.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 6,606
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Quote:
And i think this here is the crux of most of the toon hate lately for alot of collectors. I personally think that if Renegades does well, and can power the line some more, it may create enough success that we might get 2 lines down the road...the primary line, and a realistic line, with room for all the old retreads so many joe fans are clamoring for! Basically, the Joe brand needs the shot in the arm this toon has the potential to be. It needs new, kiddie blood to rejuvenate it, because the average adult collector is a fickle beast.
So am i, and personally, i like where this is going. Quote:
And I'm just trying to get a discount! You and I will always know the truth. And how does it go... Knowing is half the battle, right?
__________________
My feedback thread:
http://www.hisstank.com/forum/buy-se...-feedback.html Swamirama! A BST list: http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...ml#post4177881 Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-1
I hope you get eaten by a bear or something.
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10-20-2010, 06:31 AM | #97743 |
The Ruiner.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Akron, OH
Posts: 6,606
|
Too long, didn't read.
Seriously, I do understand your concerns. Even as I'm saying "You don't know," I'm nervous. I don't want garbage either. I want an awesome cartoon. Therefore, I'm willing to believe. I also appreciate that if it is good, you'll eat your words. I guess I'm worried that no matter what, though, it won't be enough to live up to your expectations. What exactly are you looking for, you know?
__________________
My feedback thread:
http://www.hisstank.com/forum/buy-se...-feedback.html Swamirama! A BST list: http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...ml#post4177881 Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom-1
I hope you get eaten by a bear or something.
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10-20-2010, 07:57 AM | #97744 |
Sith Assassin Droid
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Roanoke, Virginia
Posts: 9,173
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On this, i will agree with you. At the end of the day, i'm glad to see joe succeed in any capacity. If they brought back a toon exactly like sunbow, visually, and had it about all the old characters 'exactly' as originally designed, i would be where you are now on Renegades. But i would still be happy that Joe is out there. I am hoping Renegades hits big with kids, especially my nephews. I want to be able to play joes with them, instead of Clone Wars all the time (although i love my clone wars time with them, it's getting a little stale). I tried to introduce them to the sunbow series, but they didn't like it. I didn't blame them either, it was hard for me to wade through as well. I guess stuff was just simpler then. Although when Duke drops that line about mustard and hot dog, my oldest nephew declared Duke gay and the sunbow toon was for babies. :: shrug:: |
10-20-2010, 12:14 PM | #97745 |
Darth_Henning
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 21,174
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Quote:
Too long, didn't read.
Seriously, I do understand your concerns. Even as I'm saying "You don't know," I'm nervous. I don't want garbage either. I want an awesome cartoon. Therefore, I'm willing to believe. I also appreciate that if it is good, you'll eat your words. I guess I'm worried that no matter what, though, it won't be enough to live up to your expectations. What exactly are you looking for, you know? I'm not expecting Tolstoy, its a kids cartoon. But just look at most of the cartoons out there now, they're completely unwatchably bad, and that's what I fear; that Joe will sink to the lowest common form of cartoon. If they can distinguish themselves above the pack, I'm in. I was apprehensive about Clone Wars, but after seeing it I'm OK with everything except the things that blatently contradict established canon (unlike Joe, there is only a single universe of stories). Quote:
On this, i will agree with you. At the end of the day, i'm glad to see joe succeed in any capacity. If they brought back a toon exactly like sunbow, visually, and had it about all the old characters 'exactly' as originally designed, i would be where you are now on Renegades.
If you change the plot in a logical, consistent and progressive way then go for it. But most of the changes I'm seing are unnecessary, apparently randomly just for the heck of it, and (from what little I see so far) either don't advance the plot, introduce gaping holes, or lead it in a direction that numerous other series have shown don't work. Quote:
But i would still be happy that Joe is out there. I am hoping Renegades hits big with kids, especially my nephews. I want to be able to play joes with them, instead of Clone Wars all the time (although i love my clone wars time with them, it's getting a little stale).
Take Clone Wars as example of where things go wrong. Have you seen the episodes on Ryloth? For 20+ years Ryloth has been known as tidally locked with its sun so one side always faces the sun, and one always away. Hence there's is a narrow habitable belt around it where the Twileks live that always kind of looks like its mid-evening. In the Clone Wars, there's suddenly night and day. Why? There's no plot point in the shows that involves it being dark, or the middle of the day! There was no reason for the change, and though the plot of the episode was great, the main thing that sticks out in most fan's minds is the change to the planet's roatation (or lack thereof). Compare to Ashoka from the same series. Many fans find her annoying and unnecessary, but even the most bias admit that its a good foil for Anakin's character development, and help explain why he's so upset about not being made a master in EP III. It's not a change everyone likes, but its a change that makes SENSE. Change, just for the sake of change, is NOT a good idea. Change for the sake of advancing the plot is perfectly fine even if you aren't thrilled with it. I personally feel that most of the changes that we're seeing with ROC, and now Renegades falls into the first category, change for the sake of change, rather than anything to actually advance the plot. To return to Joe: Why is Ripcord black? for diversity. OK, is there a plot point around that? well...um...no. So why was it done? UNNECESSARY CHANGE Compare to: Why was the Baroness involved with Duke? To increase the tension between the two, provide a plausable reason for personal conflict between Duke and Destro, and to expound on Cobra Commander's backstory, inexhorably linking the two opposing teams in more than a simple ideological struggle. PLOT ADVANCEMENT Do you see what I'm getting at here? Quote:
I tried to introduce them to the sunbow series, but they didn't like it. I didn't blame them either, it was hard for me to wade through as well. I guess stuff was just simpler then. Although when Duke drops that line about mustard and hot dog, my oldest nephew declared Duke gay and the sunbow toon was for babies.
To me, Joe is better developed, and while not a great work by any means, stands clearly head and shoulders above 90% or more of the new stuff. |
10-20-2010, 12:46 PM | #97746 |
Sith Assassin Droid
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Roanoke, Virginia
Posts: 9,173
|
Quote:
Something of roughly equal quality to what we saw in the 80s cartoons in general, Beast Wars and Clone Wars (as far as plot goes, I don't particularly like their animation style either).
I'm not expecting Tolstoy, its a kids cartoon. But just look at most of the cartoons out there now, they're completely unwatchably bad, and that's what I fear; that Joe will sink to the lowest common form of cartoon. If they can distinguish themselves above the pack, I'm in. I was apprehensive about Clone Wars, but after seeing it I'm OK with everything except the things that blatently contradict established canon (unlike Joe, there is only a single universe of stories). I just like the art style better. If they want to change up the plot logically go for it. I was never against the whole "baroness used to be engaged to Duke" thing, because hey, its an interesting new twist to things. By contrast I was by contrast very against the casting of Tatum and Waynas (or however you spell that). If you change the plot in a logical, consistent and progressive way then go for it. But most of the changes I'm seing are unnecessary, apparently randomly just for the heck of it, and (from what little I see so far) either don't advance the plot, introduce gaping holes, or lead it in a direction that numerous other series have shown don't work. If it works to bring in kids, I'm all for it, but I think it could have been somewhat more 'existing-fan-friendly" without compromizing the appeal to new kids. Take Clone Wars as example of where things go wrong. Have you seen the episodes on Ryloth? For 20+ years Ryloth has been known as tidally locked with its sun so one side always faces the sun, and one always away. Hence there's is a narrow habitable belt around it where the Twileks live that always kind of looks like its mid-evening. In the Clone Wars, there's suddenly night and day. Why? There's no plot point in the shows that involves it being dark, or the middle of the day! There was no reason for the change, and though the plot of the episode was great, the main thing that sticks out in most fan's minds is the change to the planet's roatation (or lack thereof). Compare to Ashoka from the same series. Many fans find her annoying and unnecessary, but even the most bias admit that its a good foil for Anakin's character development, and help explain why he's so upset about not being made a master in EP III. It's not a change everyone likes, but its a change that makes SENSE. Change, just for the sake of change, is NOT a good idea. Change for the sake of advancing the plot is perfectly fine even if you aren't thrilled with it. I personally feel that most of the changes that we're seeing with ROC, and now Renegades falls into the first category, change for the sake of change, rather than anything to actually advance the plot. To return to Joe: Why is Ripcord black? for diversity. OK, is there a plot point around that? well...um...no. So why was it done? UNNECESSARY CHANGE Compare to: Why was the Baroness involved with Duke? To increase the tension between the two, provide a plausable reason for personal conflict between Duke and Destro, and to expound on Cobra Commander's backstory, inexhorably linking the two opposing teams in more than a simple ideological struggle. PLOT ADVANCEMENT Do you see what I'm getting at here? Your not the first person I've heard mention this (though the first I've heard mention mustard and hot dogs), and it surprises me. In my (admittedly not extensive) experience with modern cartoons, they have simpler plots, far more one-dimensional characters, and very little to commend them plotwise even compared to the 80s shows with a few notable standouts (Clone Wars being the one I'm most familiar with). To me, Joe is better developed, and while not a great work by any means, stands clearly head and shoulders above 90% or more of the new stuff. I guess the core of our contention seems to be that you have an emotional investment in the Sunbow/ARAH stuff and want it all to be consistent across the board. I just want the major stuff to be consistent. I don't care about ripcord, because he was barely there in the old days. Heck, i didn't even consider him an actual character until i was a teen. He was always a generic paratrooper for me. For it's time, Joe was a good toon. But when faced with today's kids, who develop alot earlier, it's stilted and lame. |
10-20-2010, 12:57 PM | #97747 |
Darth_Henning
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 21,174
|
Quote:
I guess the core of our contention seems to be that you have an emotional investment in the Sunbow/ARAH stuff and want it all to be consistent across the board.
I just want the major stuff to be consistent. I don't care about ripcord, because he was barely there in the old days. Heck, i didn't even consider him an actual character until i was a teen. He was always a generic paratrooper for me. For it's time, Joe was a good toon. But when faced with today's kids, who develop alot earlier, it's stilted and lame. As for consitency, I suppose its from two things for me: 1) the medical scientist who thinks if it works, and your not making a radical improvement, don't change it because the results could (and likely will) be disasterous 2) being a massive Star Wars nut. There there is only one continuity, and making things fit is the job of several people at Lucasfilm, and they often get help from the continuity nuts in the community, a short list including myself. It may be habit. I just don't think change for the hell of it is a good thing. Sometimes it can work, but 9 outta 10 times it doesn't. I fear this is one of the nine. If it winds up being one of the one, I'd be more than happy to eat my words. I know when Star Wars Legacy (comics) was announced, I was by far the most vocal detractor on the web. Now that the series is done, I'm one of its biggest supporters because they proved me wrong. By contrast, I stand by my original assessment of Transformers Animated that it did not work. This is really Renegade's fight to lose, and if done right I'll happily embrace it. But from what I've seen now, its unlikely. |
10-20-2010, 01:03 PM | #97748 |
Sith Assassin Droid
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Roanoke, Virginia
Posts: 9,173
|
And Renegades is so awesome, that when you embrace it, it will stroke your hair and tell you "Shh, it's ok..everything is gonna be alright".
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10-20-2010, 01:17 PM | #97749 |
Working 2 Pay My Joe Debt
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 15,804
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After the way they dropped the ball on Sigma 6 I am weary of any cartoon they are putting out.
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10-20-2010, 01:20 PM | #97750 |
Sith Assassin Droid
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Roanoke, Virginia
Posts: 9,173
|
I wonder if/when we will ever see the SDCC ROC Destro body re-released at retail? I would love to get my grubby mitts on about 6 if they were more affordable.
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