[Irid70]

Look, you don't make heroes without putting them up against serious threats. It just doesn't happen. Death is the most serious and final of all threats.

If there is no significant threat of death...if characters don't occasionally die in a story...then the threats, the struggles, the opponents become meaningless, neutered, weak.

We weren't supposed to be happy when Lady Jaye died. Shocked, sad, upset, angry; all of those are valid responses. It is also valid to say "I no longer want to read this story by these writers," but if the Joes always go on to victory without ever losing anyone but nameless greenshirts (or unpopular characters like BF 2000) then what are their victories worth? How competent is Cobra if they are toothless, if they never present a real threat? When that sort of thing happens in an ongoing story (see, for example, fantasy novels by R.A. Salvatore, where people not only come back from the dead after 7 years, he can't even summon the balls to kill off a villain) I check out. Lady Jaye was a loss. That's what death is. In a story of heroic fantasy, like G.I. Joe, or a fantasy novel, if the threat of death isn't real, it ain't heroic.

[thunderdan19]

I have to disagree, at least a little bit. I would welcome a fresh start with Marvel. Honestly, that is probably the only way I would get back into the comics. If it's a fresh beginning, you would have more peripheral (expendable) characters to start from. I would also argue that "killing" off main characters is little more than a ploy intended on generating buzz and interest. I say, yes, kill off peripherals. Like the point above, people do get killed in battle. But killing off the main characters that people are attached to is cashing in by selling the farm. It's desperate and ultimately bad for the franchise.

[sharke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irid70

Look, you don't make heroes without putting them up against serious threats. It just doesn't happen. Death is the most serious and final of all threats.

If there is no significant threat of death...if characters don't occasionally die in a story...then the threats, the struggles, the opponents become meaningless, neutered, weak.

We weren't supposed to be happy when Lady Jaye died. Shocked, sad, upset, angry; all of those are valid responses. It is also valid to say "I no longer want to read this story by these writers," but if the Joes always go on to victory without ever losing anyone but nameless greenshirts (or unpopular characters like BF 2000) then what are their victories worth? How competent is Cobra if they are toothless, if they never present a real threat? When that sort of thing happens in an ongoing story (see, for example, fantasy novels by R.A. Salvatore, where people not only come back from the dead after 7 years, he can't even summon the balls to kill off a villain) I check out. Lady Jaye was a loss. That's what death is. In a story of heroic fantasy, like G.I. Joe, or a fantasy novel, if the threat of death isn't real, it ain't heroic.

I agree completely, but I'm sure if they killed Beachhead I'd be singing a different song

[artiepants]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderdan19

I would also argue that "killing" off main characters is little more than a ploy intended on generating buzz and interest. I say, yes, kill off peripherals. Like the point above, people do get killed in battle. But killing off the main characters that people are attached to is cashing in by selling the farm.

out of all of those on the list, i'd really only consider Mindbender and Serpentor 'main' characters ~ even Breaker and Lady Jaye are more "b-list" Joes IMO (maybe B+;)) ~ you're not likely to see Duke and Snake-eyes bite the big one, ya know?

plus, death has been part of Joe since the beginning (General Flagg)

[USAgent]

Thanks... it's filling in the gaps. Seems the BattleForce 2000 guys were pretty well disliked (who, individually made up the battleForce Team?). It was also good to hear Recondo wasn't dead (a favorite of mine) but sort of sad about Chuckles (but what can you expect if you're deep cover in Cobra)

[xhairs]

man all i know is that DDP killed of so many joes in the worst ways. ie like LJ a pice of glass killed her.
Marvel killed them in the most respectable ways for them to die.

the BF2000 was made up these guys and dodger was the only one to survive


Battleforce 2000

1987 Avalanche Blaster Blocker Dodger Knockdown Maverick 1989 Dee-Jay

[thunderdan19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by artiepants

out of all of those on the list, i'd really only consider Mindbender and Serpentor 'main' characters ~ even Breaker and Lady Jaye are more "b-list" Joes IMO (maybe B+;)) ~ you're not likely to see Duke and Snake-eyes bite the big one, ya know?

plus, death has been part of Joe since the beginning (General Flagg)

I agree with you on the B list arguement in general, and I didn't have a particular affinity for any one of them. But I do want to remind everyone that the Marvel comics made Breaker a serious main character for a long time and the cartoon made Lady Jaye (sans the hat), Mindbender and Serpentor stars.

Speaking of comics and cartoons making B-listers into major players. What really got on my nerves was when the comics would pick out some character (often not even one with an action figure based on it) and would feature them in comic after comic, while actual characters from the toy line would barely get any face time at all. How annoying was that?

And then there was the animated movie... all that Cobra-La crap (one bizarre three figure set becomes a whole new evolutionary line, lost civilization and pathetic movie plot)... Remember, they almost killed off Duke (and yes I do apologize for bringing up that pathetic piece of garbage). The best thing about that entire movie was the opening sequence. RIP entire toy line... Ugh!

[General Scarlett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharke

yeah, cause no one ever dies in the military!

Look, I can appreciate that some of you follow a more 'realistic' approach to these characters. And while this line is a 'military' toy line, it's still pretend.

I'd rather they send characters off to 'remote locations' for an extended tour or whatnot......that's what I've been doing for the last 25 years......and when they are needed, they get the orders to head back to the PITT

But that's me, and I'm the only one I'm able to speak for.....

[slim19722]

Quote:

Originally Posted by General Scarlett

Look, I can appreciate that some of you follow a more 'realistic' approach to these characters. And while this line is a 'military' toy line, it's still pretend.

I'd rather they send characters off to 'remote locations' for an extended tour or whatnot......that's what I've been doing for the last 25 years......and when they are needed, they get the orders to head back to the PITT

But that's me, and I'm the only one I'm able to speak for.....

I am in complete agreement. Being a ex-service member who has seen combat, I don't need that kinda realism in a "pretend" toy line. I enjoy the fantasy element of Joe vs Cobra and if that means some unreal situation, so be it. If I want realism, I'll turn on CNN or better yet, talk to a fellow service member who can relate to what I'm saying.

[Driftbot]

you can talk to me.
i havent seen any combat (except being on an aircraft carrier in the gulf), but i completely understand where you are coming from.

we see and hear so much about death in the military, GI Joe is a great escape from reality, while maintaining enough from the military to be able to relate and understand the lingo (even though its not accurate sometimes, but thats part of the fun, no?)
and im sure all of us military folks, past and present, have picked out our joe who best represented ourselves. i think thats fun too! (i would be more of a cross between shipwreck and breaker?)

i was pissed when i found out lady jaye was killed. but it wasnt enough to get me to stop reading. infact, it kinda rekindled my intrest to find out wtf has been going on with the joes in comics since marvel stopped thier run.

and IF marvel gets the license back, i would imagine they would pick right back up where they left off.
"14 years ago, The PITT was decomissioned... America needs it back in full operational readiness, immediately!" something to that effect.
again, thats IF marvel gets it.
(my god, has it really been 14 years?!?)

overall i dont think its so bad, killing characters off ocassionally. i mean, look what happened to chewbacca. :(
they dropped a MOON on that poor wookie!