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10-23-2009, 01:15 PM | #9721 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Here's what I wrote to Mr. Hama...
Mr. Hama, I'm sure you've gotten so many questions about Snake-Eyes over the years that you're sick of them. I'm hoping you'll be willing to take pity on a few of your old fans and help us out anyway. Sorry in advance for the inconvenience. So here's the problem: On the cover of issue #26, it mentions "MACV-SOG" in Snake-Eyes file. Well, we don't understand that qualification. We know what MACV-SOG is, but it was only for Green Berets (U.S. Army Special Forces). However, we can't find any reference to Snake-Eyes being a qualified Green Beret. Can you help us? What exactly is the extent to Snake-Eyes military training in the old Marvel series? I know it was always a secret, but maybe it's OK to tell all now. ;) Here's the underlying question. We know you didn't worry so much with all the details of which Joes had which training qualifications, but a group of us are concerned with this, and the Green Berets are always a question. Can you tell us which Joes were Special Forces? I know you said most were Rangers and Airborne and whatever, but it seems like being a Green Beret is a pretty big deal and is a lot more important than just having a Ranger Tab. So Thanks in advance, Mr. Hama. We would like to know the extent of Snake-Eyes military training, and which Joes were actually intended to be Special Forces (Green Berets). Thanks. With much appreciation, Oliver Box
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
10-23-2009, 01:17 PM | #9722 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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But what did he do that was so secret that his entire record is classified, including his name?
That's the big thing that was never explained. And I don't consider DDP's Snake-Eyes: Declassified. That "story" doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned.
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Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
10-23-2009, 01:19 PM | #9723 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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The other thing to keep in mind is that Snake-Eyes was loosely based on Bob Light, a member of the 1st Air Cavalry Division's H Company (Ranger) whom Hama befriended in Vietnam. The H Company's LRRP units frequently trained with the MACV-SOG, particularly towards the end of the 1960s, when the LRRP units were being redesigned to incorporate South Vietnamese soldiers. So while the H Company (Ranger) LRRP teams weren't special forces themselves, they were associated with the MACV-SOG whilst still being considered Rangers first and foremost. So the MACV-SOG reference on that cover could just be a nod to Bob Light's service record.
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10-23-2009, 01:22 PM | #9724 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
|
Well, hopefully we'll find out for sure. Everything else is just conjecture and speculation, no matter how educated our guesses are.
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
10-23-2009, 01:27 PM | #9725 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Me neither! I have no idea what you are talking about.
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10-23-2009, 01:28 PM | #9726 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
Quote:
Here's what I wrote to Mr. Hama...
Mr. Hama, I'm sure you've gotten so many questions about Snake-Eyes over the years that you're sick of them. I'm hoping you'll be willing to take pity on a few of your old fans and help us out anyway. Sorry in advance for the inconvenience. So here's the problem: On the cover of issue #26, it mentions "MACV-SOG" in Snake-Eyes file. Well, we don't understand that qualification. We know what MACV-SOG is, but it was only for Green Berets (U.S. Army Special Forces). However, we can't find any reference to Snake-Eyes being a qualified Green Beret. Can you help us? What exactly is the extent to Snake-Eyes military training in the old Marvel series? I know it was always a secret, but maybe it's OK to tell all now. ;) Here's the underlying question. We know you didn't worry so much with all the details of which Joes had which training qualifications, but a group of us are concerned with this, and the Green Berets are always a question. Can you tell us which Joes were Special Forces? I know you said most were Rangers and Airborne and whatever, but it seems like being a Green Beret is a pretty big deal and is a lot more important than just having a Ranger Tab. So Thanks in advance, Mr. Hama. We would like to know the extent of Snake-Eyes military training, and which Joes were actually intended to be Special Forces (Green Berets). Thanks. With much appreciation, Oliver Box |
10-23-2009, 01:29 PM | #9727 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
|
Well, you know me. ;) I've never been short on words.
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
10-23-2009, 01:30 PM | #9728 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
|
I think Larry Hama signed off on that mini-series. He endorsed it. But I agree. I didn't like it much at all.
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
10-23-2009, 04:47 PM | #9729 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
|
Oliver, I like your question. Hopefully Hama puts some thought into it and doesn't just express indifference. It may very well be that SE is just a LRRP, but the document on the cover of the issue in question certainly raises an eyebrow.
First, here's a little history about Rangers and LRRPs that I've uncovered in my research about Nam: In December 1965, the 1st Brigade of the 101st Airborne Division created a provisional LRRP platoon. In April 1966, the 1st Infantry Division and 173rd Airborne Brigade formed provisional LRRP units, followed by more LRRP units in the 25th Infantry Division in June 1966. General W. C. Westmoreland authorized the official creation of LRRP units on July 8, 1966. Afterwards, the 4th and 9th Infantry Divisions, the 196th Light Infantry Brigade and the 1st Air Cavalry Division created their own LRRP units. In June 1967, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Earle G. Wheeler, authorized two LRP companies for I and II Field Forces. The LRRP platoons from the 1st Brigade, 101st Airborne Division and the 173rd Airborne Brigade, along with replacement soldiers, helped formed Company E (LRP), 20th Infantry (Airborne) and Company F (LRP), 51st Infantry (Airborne) respectively. Each company had about 230 men, commanded by a major. On February 1, 1969 divisional LRP companies and brigade detachments were designated as Ranger companies of the 75th Infantry Regiment. Ranger companies were inactivated as they withdrew from the war between November 1969 and August 15, 1972. MACV Recondo School was formally approved by General Westmoreland on September 4, 1966. The three-week course was taught in Nha Trang by the 5th Special Forces Group, who previously instructed recon teams for Project Delta. Personnel from all branches of the US Armed Forces, along with soldiers from Vietnam, Korea, Australia, Thailand and the Philippines, attended together. Classes typically had 60 students and students were formed into five-man teams with an instructor. During October and November of 1967, all classes were reserved for personnel from LRP Company E (20th Infantry) and F (51st Infantry), but none of the 333 students completed all of the requirements and were not awarded Recondo numbers. Over 3000 personnel, including the above 333, were trained between September 1966 and December 1970. |
10-23-2009, 05:18 PM | #9730 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
|
Quote:
I think the problem with this theory is the question of Special Forces qualificaton. MACV-SOG was slotted for Green Berets only. Unless Snake-Eyes has his "long tab", he wouldn't be eligible for it. On the other hand, if he was "Special Forces" qualified, he would have been serving in Special Forces to begin with. He wouldn't have been in the LRRPs if he were already a Green Beret.
To join SF, a soldier needed at least 18 months remaining on his enlistment, so if he joined after completing his first tour, he would have had 18 months in the Army at that point. That leaves 18 months left of a 3-year service, but SF volunteers were required to have 18 months of service left AFTER training, which lasted anywhere from 18 to 42 weeks depending on MOS (medics required the most; weapons leader the least). However the Army often waived certain requirements so what actually ocurred often differed from what was written. Interesting note: From 1969, all who graduated the SF Qual Course were promoted to E-5 Sgt. Graduates were slotted into E-6 and E-7 positions. Also, they underwent a 2 week combat course at Recondo School. Quote:
Quote:
The other thing to keep in mind is that Snake-Eyes was loosely based on Bob Light, a member of the 1st Air Cavalry Division's H Company (Ranger) whom Hama befriended in Vietnam. The H Company's LRRP units frequently trained with the MACV-SOG, particularly towards the end of the 1960s, when the LRRP units were being redesigned to incorporate South Vietnamese soldiers. So while the H Company (Ranger) LRRP teams weren't special forces themselves, they were associated with the MACV-SOG whilst still being considered Rangers first and foremost. So the MACV-SOG reference on that cover could just be a nod to Bob Light's service record.
I didn't know anything about Bob Light until now. That's an interesting piece of information though. Do you still have the source for this, Zulu? I'd like to check into it some more. Last edited by Tanksmasher; 10-23-2009 at 05:25 PM.. |
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