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10-16-2009, 04:57 AM | #9541 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
Here's something I've been toying with. I incorporate so many Generals into my Joe verse that it seems odd for what I have of about 200 characters to have 10 generals.
What if the Joes who are Generals were in fact the Jugglers now? So they would have full reign as to what they want to do. So Colton, Austin, Keel-Haul, Hollingsworth, Flagg Sr.(Never Died), and Hawk. Maybe a couple of CIA Directors as well. Then there is Flagg III, Rey, and Payload as well but they don't sit on that inner circle. I have a Patton Figure I incorporate as well sometimes, but he doesn't need to be part of this discussion. Basically when Cobra Figures out Serpentor, The Government say why not bring back Patton? |
10-16-2009, 05:02 AM | #9542 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Quote:
The chronology regarding GI Joe's creation is problematic. In early issues like 26 and 27 the date of SE's tour of duty is unknown, and Stalker tells Hawk that he remembers seeing the Araskikage symbol "more than 10 years ago" which again sets us in the general time frame of the war. But in issue 94, we get an actual date: Jan 30, 1968. This date puts Hawk's recruitment of the original 13 somewhere around 1975, roughly six years before issue 1, published in the middle of 1982. That means the first 13 Joes were operating for 7 years! Here's how I came up with 1975:
Before the infamous ambush, Tommy and Snake-Eyes had served one year and were starting a second tour. Stalker had been with them for six months at this point. So Storm Shadow and Snake-Eyes had been together for at least six months before Stalker joined them. All three were together on January 31, 1968 during the TET Offensive when the Baroness’s brother was killed (issue 94). But how long had they been together at this point? If they had just met Stalker then the ambush did not occur until six months later near the end of July. Or they had already been together for almost six months and the ambush occurred in the ensuing weeks. DDP Declassified states that Snake-Eyes’ sister died February 26, so the writer assumed the latter to be true, which means she died February 26, 1968, the day Snake-Eyes returned home from Vietnam—permanently or on leave, we don’t know—still dressed in bandages. This chronology also implies that Snake-Eyes arrived in Vietnam around February 1967, since he had already served a tour with Tommy up until his sister’s death, and therefore enlisted in the Army at least six months prior in order to have completed BCT, AIT, Jump School and his 30-day leave. That puts his enlistment at around August 1966. He could have enlisted at the age of 17 with his parent’s permission, and if so, then he would have been born July 5, 1949 or 1948 at the earliest. However, if the DDP writer’s assumption is false and Stalker just met Snake-Eyes in January of 1968, then Snake-Eyes would have enlisted around January 1967. Either way, he most likely turned 17 or 18 in July of 1966. Snake-Eyes had about one and a half years in service before getting wounded, so he still had six more months to serve in the Army, in Vietnam or perhaps in the States, depending upon the seriousness of his wounds. Since he had re-upped for another tour, prior to getting wounded, he was probably going to serve out the rest of his time in Vietnam. Regardless of where he finished his service, he would have gotten out of the Army around January 1969, assuming he enlisted in 1967. From here on, he would have been free to visit Japan, where he trained with Tommy’s family for three years. So he would have returned to the States again at the start of 1972, and then built a home in the High Sierras where he lived for three years before Stalker and Hawk recruited him for GI Joe. Hence 1975 marks the advent of Hawk’s command. The Joes would have then trained for the next several months or even years, prior to the helicopter crash that scarred Snake-Eyes’ face and left him mute. He spent the next six months in the hospital. Yet the GI Joe adventures begin with issue 1 in June 1982. |
10-16-2009, 09:56 AM | #9543 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Always wondered about that. In issue #26 (or was it #27?), when he's recalling his days in Vietnam, he talks about Snake-Eyes already being some type of bad-ass mystery man by the time he meets him (this would be at around Snake-Eyes' second tour in country). And this is before he got ninja training. So Snake-Eyes must have already had a reputation as a hard man at the time for some reason. Thing is, we don't really know anything about Snake-Eyes' civilian life prior to joining the military. He could've already been born and/or raised hard, so to speak, and already brought that innate toughness with him into the military.
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10-16-2009, 10:12 AM | #9544 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,224
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Quote:
Always wondered about that. In issue #26 (or was it #27?), when he's recalling his days in Vietnam, he talks about Snake-Eyes already being some type of bad-ass mystery man by the time he meets him (this would be at around Snake-Eyes' second tour in country). And this is before he got ninja training. So Snake-Eyes must have already had a reputation as a hard man at the time for some reason. Thing is, we don't really know anything about Snake-Eyes' civilian life prior to joining the military. He could've already been born and/or raised hard, so to speak, and already brought that innate toughness with him into the military.
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10-16-2009, 10:19 AM | #9545 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,157
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Another issue regarding the timeline of Snake Eyes, Stalker and Tommy's service in Vietnam is their ranks and ages. If they were there as early as 1966 or 1967, that would probably make them the same age or older than Duke, who we know enlisted in 1967 (assuming he was 18 or 19 at the time). Duke always struck me as at least a few years older than Stalker and Snake Eyes.
As for their ranks, it's mostly a problem with Stalker. Snake Eyes and Tommy were out of the service after Vietnam so they would obviously not be getting any more promotions. But if Stalker stayed in the Army after Nam, he should have been much higher than an E-5 by the time the Joes were formed. The later he joined, the less problematic his Joe rank is. Although, either way he should have been at least an E-6 when he joined the Joes. I kind of prefer to think of Stalker, Snake Eyes and Tommy as serving in Vietnam in the early 70s as opposed to the mid-late 60s. Snake Eyes being around for Tet feels tacked on to me. And I actually like the idea of him being on the last chopper out a lot better. |
10-16-2009, 10:29 AM | #9546 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,224
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Quote:
Another issue regarding the timeline of Snake Eyes, Stalker and Tommy's service in Vietnam is their ranks and ages. If they were there as early as 1966 or 1967, that would probably make them the same age or older than Duke, who we know enlisted in 1967 (assuming he was 18 or 19 at the time). Duke always struck me as at least a few years older than Stalker and Snake Eyes.
As for their ranks, it's mostly a problem with Stalker. Snake Eyes and Tommy were out of the service after Vietnam so they would obviously not be getting any more promotions. But if Stalker stayed in the Army after Nam, he should have been much higher than an E-5 by the time the Joes were formed. The later he joined, the less problematic his Joe rank is. Although, either way he should have been at least an E-6 when he joined the Joes. I kind of prefer to think of Stalker, Snake Eyes and Tommy as serving in Vietnam in the early 70s as opposed to the mid-late 60s. Snake Eyes being around for Tet feels tacked on to me. And I actually like the idea of him being on the last chopper out a lot better. Granted there was a Sgt in a book I finished that had been in the service for 14 years by the time he served in Nam and was still a Sgt! He must have been overlooked for promotion for some serious reasons, yet it's possible. But Stalker strikes me as someone who is very promotable: a hard-working, intelligent soldier. So he must have left and was called back. As for ages, Duke sort of finds himself on the fast track. And some very young men achieved master sgt quickly after the war. Like you I prefer to see Duke as older than Snake or Stalker so I fixed this by making Snake enlist at the age of 17 in 1966 and Duke was 18 when he enlisted in January of 1967. So Snake enlisted first but at a younger age. Same thing with Stalker, who was trying to get out of the gang life. |
10-16-2009, 10:35 AM | #9547 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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In GI Joe Origins, Stalker violates a prisoner's rights to save lives on the military post and Hawk takes the blame. Maybe you could work this story into why Stalker was held back for a while due to the incident tainting his record.
Also in the same story, Stalker recalls first meeting SE at Uncle Sugar's (CIA reference?) Maybe Snakes was working for the CIA every now and then already and was out of the traditional army but attached to Stalker's LRRP unit. It might explain some of the timeline problems...maybe |
10-16-2009, 10:36 AM | #9548 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,224
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Stalker is an interesting character. He comes from a violent, ruthless childhood of poverty and gangbanging yet he's very intelligent, well-spoken and fluent in five languages before he enlists. While in BCT and AIT he finishes at the top of his class, which is why I see him as an "instant NCO" or "shake N bake Sgt"--the guys that were selected to attend NCO school before starting their tours to help slow the high NCO attrition. But I'm still looking for plausible ways to explain his language skills. He must have had a diverse family.
Last edited by Tanksmasher; 10-16-2009 at 10:43 AM.. |
10-16-2009, 10:42 AM | #9549 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,224
|
Quote:
In GI Joe Origins, Stalker violates a prisoner's rights to save lives on the military post and Hawk takes the blame. Maybe you could work this story into why Stalker was held back for a while due to the incident tainting his record.
Also in the same story, Stalker recalls first meeting SE at Uncle Sugar's (CIA reference?) Maybe Snakes was working for the CIA every now and then already and was out of the traditional army but attached to Stalker's LRRP unit. It might explain some of the timeline problems...maybe |
10-16-2009, 10:47 AM | #9550 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,294
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Maybe the death of Eugene De Cobray was pinned on him not only by the Baroness but also by her govt? So he's a wanted man in both SE Asia and parts of Europe and some very rich and disturbed people ????
Btw, Snakes being involved in assassinating a Cambodian or Laotian General reeks of awesomeness... Doesn't it say in one of his early file cards that all his records were destroyed in a "mysterious" fire ??? |
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