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09-25-2009, 01:43 AM | #9321 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
|
Quote:
Thanks for the info (neat username, BTW, I only just realised that it's an IO reference).
As for MARSOC... I guess I fall into the camp of the guys not really convinced of its necessity and utility. I've read a number of papers from JSOU on the subject of its creation and its purpose, and the concept just strikes me as redundant, especially in light of what NAVSPECWARCOM already does and what the various MAGTF set-ups are already capable of without USSOCOM's involvement: A Maritime Special Purpose Force with the proper staffing could equal, and probably even exceed, any MSOT/MSOB's capabilities (especially since an MSPF would have direct access to an MEU's organic aviation elements). Maybe I just haven't been reading the right papers or listening to the best arguments for MARSOC's creation. I've always admired the Corps for its fiscal responsibility and organizational efficiency, especially when compared to its "big brothers" but (and I mean no disrespect to the people who work in MARSOC when I say this) the whole MARSOC thing just seems like an exercise in getting a piece of the USSOCOM budget.
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Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery? http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...r1s-b-s-t.html Last edited by blackrazor1; 09-25-2009 at 01:45 AM.. Reason: clarity |
09-25-2009, 10:19 AM | #9322 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
I'm having a hard time making out the differences between the use; purpose; organization of the various Recon Marines. Then with MARSOC they seem to be going for a Special Forces ODA team, particularly since they are stressing languages now. Plus there is the Marine Special Operations Advisory Group, which sounds a lot like "winning the hearts and minds" of the Green Berets. I can see maybe the Mission that the Green Berets have been doing is one that has a positive impact, but there are only so many. So why not have the Marines pitch in.
I'm under the impression that they may try to get rid of the Force Recon as they stood before. They now make up an additional Platoon in the MEF's recon Battalion. The main difference between Force Recon units and MSPF seems to be that the Force Recon units are meant to be a Division resource. The MSPF is more a resource for a deployed MEU. I would suppose the Force Recon would be more able to be Airborne dropped in and the MSPF would be more of a water-borne insertion. But reading that the MSPF is deployed when Force Recon is not available seems a little fuzzy mathy for me. I mean why not use the Force Recon guys? Is a MSPF only a thrown together unit? I'm wondering if the CORPS said yeah take all the older Marines to MARSOC we got new one coming and we'll just bump up the capabilities of our Recon Battalions so they are essentially all Force Recon. Because Force Recon was only like 5 companies to begin with I think. So if half went to MARSOC, maybe they get a bunch of money and put it into their training? I mean all recon marines get Airborne training and CQB trained. And like you said they have one battalion get the serious CQB training and another get the Combat diver training. |
09-25-2009, 11:32 AM | #9323 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
Marine RECON and MARSOC - Military Fitness - Military.com
This may help clear some up some confusion. |
09-25-2009, 12:31 PM | #9324 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Did the none Facebook quiz (I'll hit the FB one this weekend) and came up with:
Green Beret
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Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
09-25-2009, 06:15 PM | #9325 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Were you disappointed,Troynos? I figured you'd want to be a PJ.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
09-25-2009, 07:06 PM | #9326 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
I took that quiz too, like three times and I turned out to be a Green beret every time. I wonder what the choices are. Seems like you only get the one choice to be an American, and then German and British or Russian are the other choices based on the gun you select. I haven't taken the Facebook quiz. I'm too lazy to log on to Facebook. Too many old girlfriends there.
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09-25-2009, 07:25 PM | #9327 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
|
Quote:
I'm having a hard time making out the differences between the use; purpose; organization of the various Recon Marines. Then with MARSOC they seem to be going for a Special Forces ODA team, particularly since they are stressing languages now. Plus there is the Marine Special Operations Advisory Group, which sounds a lot like "winning the hearts and minds" of the Green Berets. I can see maybe the Mission that the Green Berets have been doing is one that has a positive impact, but there are only so many. So why not have the Marines pitch in.
I'm under the impression that they may try to get rid of the Force Recon as they stood before. They now make up an additional Platoon in the MEF's recon Battalion. The main difference between Force Recon units and MSPF seems to be that the Force Recon units are meant to be a Division resource. The MSPF is more a resource for a deployed MEU. I would suppose the Force Recon would be more able to be Airborne dropped in and the MSPF would be more of a water-borne insertion. But reading that the MSPF is deployed when Force Recon is not available seems a little fuzzy mathy for me. I mean why not use the Force Recon guys? Is a MSPF only a thrown together unit? I'm wondering if the CORPS said yeah take all the older Marines to MARSOC we got new one coming and we'll just bump up the capabilities of our Recon Battalions so they are essentially all Force Recon. Because Force Recon was only like 5 companies to begin with I think. So if half went to MARSOC, maybe they get a bunch of money and put it into their training? I mean all recon marines get Airborne training and CQB trained. And like you said they have one battalion get the serious CQB training and another get the Combat diver training. Let's take, for example, the 1st Recon Battalion of I MEF, 1st Marine Division. The Recon Battalion has four recon companies: A, B, C and a Force Recon company. That Force Recon company is organic but primarily controlled by the I MEF commander. Like Zulu said, a Force Recon company is "special operations capable" and it contains a command element (S1, S2, S3 etc), HQ & Service platoon, 2 Direct Action platoons, 2 Deep Recon platoons and a Scout Sniper platoon. Force Recon is sort of like the Army's LRS units, which are being transferred to the new Battlefield Surveillance Brigades (BFSB) under the new Brigade Units of Action format that is being adopted. Originally part of Fleet Marine Force (FMF), Force Recon companies were disbanded and some men went to MARSOC's MSOTs and others formed the new division-level recon companies as seen in the current 1st Recon Battalion, 1st Marine Division example above. MARSOC's Marine Special Operation Companies (MSOC) are the formal equivalent to SEALs, Green Berets, etc, and are set up slightly different than Force Recon companies. MSOCs contain 3 MSOTs (Marine Speical Operation Teams) of 14 men led by a captain. They are SOF and operate similar to the Army's SFOD-A. And MSPF is like a backup unit for Force Recon; they help augment Force Recon but cannot act independently of their own MEU. Last edited by Tanksmasher; 09-25-2009 at 07:37 PM.. |
09-25-2009, 10:51 PM | #9328 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
|
Neat explanation Tansksmasher. I think you pretty much nailed it... except for the part about the MSPF. MSPFs are collections of MEU personnel, organized into a "mini-MAGTF" for mission-specific taskings (usually cases where a small and discreet landing force with ground and aviation combat capability is needed). Once their particular mission is finished, an MSPF is dissolved (hence the non-existence of "numbered" MSPF units) and their personnel go back to their respective MEU elements.
Anyway, I've been reading up on AFSOC's capabilities and came across the 6th Special Operations Squadron. Interesting stuff. They're basically similar to Army Special Forces' SFOD-A (without the specialized direct action capability). I think I've finally found a "home" for the GI Joe fighter pilots that will fit in with the Joe roster I'm drawing up (which I can hopefully finish and post in my Forum Art thread later tonight). |
09-25-2009, 11:07 PM | #9329 |
Bravo Team Weapons Sgt
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Covert Ops in Central America
Posts: 827
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Facebook quiz, I came up with Delta Force twice, and then I intentionally tried for the GiJoe. LoL
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09-26-2009, 01:47 AM | #9330 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pulaski, VA
Posts: 738
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I took it twice also and got Green Beret both times.
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