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09-19-2009, 10:36 PM | #9201 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
Now to the question, who is the most dangerous... The amount of training and adaptability would probably mean Delta Force. As mentioned above, Low-Light is probably an excellent contender for the title of "most dangerous". Claymore, Falcon, and Flint (especially in his British incarnation) would also be contenders. Big Ben, as an SAS trained LRRP, would be a seriously dangerous man.
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
09-19-2009, 10:44 PM | #9202 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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As always you are a wealth of knowledge Zulu, so let me ask you how you would rank the US military's Special Operations groups?
I'm not sure how to qualify or quantify their abilities though. Like the PJs and Civil Affairs guys. But I guess really in terms of teams that are set up as Direct Action teams. Who can kick the most ass? Tanksmasher mentioned the 82nd's Recon team and I agree these guys most likely are as well trained as the Rangers. But they are not well known. I have to go read about the Joint Special Ops team you mentioned as well. I suppose the SAD guys may be highly trained as well and may function more like GIJoe at times than any conventional unit. Still I know you won't be putting a Stryker Brigade at the top of your list. |
09-19-2009, 10:48 PM | #9203 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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09-19-2009, 10:55 PM | #9204 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
I'll probably get a lot of flak for saying this, but in some respects, I don't think there's much that differentiates, say, a mature & experienced Ranger (or an Airborne infantryman from the 82nd, for that matter) from an SF operator when it comes to light infantry raids/direct action. Many of the things that the SF Groups specialize in aren't necessarily things that bear out in the conduct of direct combat. Don't get me wrong, they possess a valuable array of unconventional warfare skills, but if we're talking "conventional" direct action, I'd say the Rangers and SF are pretty much equivalent. I think just by virtue of their accumulated training though, I'd say Delta Force and DEVGRU are the top units in the USSOCOM community. I know the Air Force likes to think that the 24th STS is right up there with Delta and DEVGRU, but I'm not really sure about that. Both Delta and DEVGRU have been around for far longer than the 24th. Last edited by zuludelta; 09-19-2009 at 11:07 PM.. |
09-19-2009, 11:02 PM | #9205 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
As always you are a wealth of knowledge Zulu, so let me ask you how you would rank the US military's Special Operations groups?
I'm not sure how to qualify or quantify their abilities though. Like the PJs and Civil Affairs guys. But I guess really in terms of teams that are set up as Direct Action teams. Who can kick the most ass? Tanksmasher mentioned the 82nd's Recon team and I agree these guys most likely are as well trained as the Rangers. But they are not well known. I have to go read about the Joint Special Ops team you mentioned as well. I suppose the SAD guys may be highly trained as well and may function more like GIJoe at times than any conventional unit. Still I know you won't be putting a Stryker Brigade at the top of your list. I recall once that I walked down to their building - just down the road from PsyOps at Bragg, and I was greeted by about 12 SF Operators with more Chest Candy than I could count. It was amazing. Those guys were huge, and I'm a pretty big guy. They were very polite, but they kindly escorted me out. They didn't need a chaplain snooping around their building. Later, while at lunch with my best friend, Chaplain Sean Dennis, I said, "So today, I evidently took a wrong turn and ended up at G.I. Joe Headquarters." He laughed so hard that Coke came out of his nose. The LRSC guys from the 82nd, the 173rd, and the 101st are all really tough. And pound for pound, they are basically small units of Rangers and are probably just as tough as the guys in the Regiment. However, the difference is in money and equipment. SOCOM just has more toys and money for toys. The regular LRSC units can't compete with that... every one of those guys would probably rather be serving in the Regiment if given the chance.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
09-19-2009, 11:20 PM | #9206 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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That's pretty Funny, Oliver. I had that same feeling last weekend, when It was family day at the Agency. My kids had to go to the bathroom and we had to walk past the SAD offices. I unfortunately had no one to share that sentiment with. But it did feel like GIJoe HQ.
But what is the function of the Civil Affairs guys? If they are attached to a unit do they get deployed as well? I mean especially if they are doing the rotation to get a break from the action. I'm just wondering if a 12 man ODA team goes out but then they get a Civil Affairs guy and a Psy-Ops guys and a Combat Controller tagging along it's a 15 man team now. And since Zulu made me look it seems like the MARSOC Marines are turning into their Version of the Green Berets. Particularly since they now stress continual language training and have added a advisory, training element in support of a partner "nation" |
09-19-2009, 11:24 PM | #9207 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
I know it seems like nit-pciking, but to me, there's a real important difference between covert action (a "deniable" operation), which is something only the CIA is allowed to do, and a classified special mission (an operation whose details are restricted knowledge), which is something that Delta and DEVGRU engage in. Last edited by zuludelta; 09-19-2009 at 11:34 PM.. |
09-19-2009, 11:30 PM | #9208 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
It's pretty hard to rank them objectively. Some units are better trained and equpped at certain things than others.
I'll probably get a lot of flak for saying this, but in some respects, I don't think there's much that differentiates, say, a mature & experienced Ranger (or an Airborne infantryman from the 82nd, for that matter) from an SF operator when it comes to light infantry raids/direct action. Many of the things that the SF Groups specialize in aren't necessarily things that bear out in the conduct of direct combat. Don't get me wrong, they possess a valuable array of unconventional warfare skills, but if we're talking "conventional" direct action, I'd say the Rangers and SF are pretty much equivalent. I think just by virtue of their accumulated training though, I'd say Delta Force and DEVGRU are the top units in the USSOCOM community. I know the Air Force likes to think that the 24th STS is right up there with Delta and DEVGRU, but I'm not really sure about that. Both Delta and DEVGRU have been around for far longer than the 24th. I have to agree with you on the Delta and DEVGRU guys. They are usually just more mature, experienced soldiers. Which is the same reason I would put Green Berets above Rangers. Sure they train probably identically and tactics are similar. But one they need to be smarter, and two they were most likely already Rangers when they do their Q courses. |
09-19-2009, 11:33 PM | #9209 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
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Quote:
As always you are a wealth of knowledge Zulu, so let me ask you how you would rank the US military's Special Operations groups?
I'm not sure how to qualify or quantify their abilities though. Like the PJs and Civil Affairs guys. But I guess really in terms of teams that are set up as Direct Action teams. Who can kick the most ass? Tanksmasher mentioned the 82nd's Recon team and I agree these guys most likely are as well trained as the Rangers. But they are not well known. I have to go read about the Joint Special Ops team you mentioned as well. I suppose the SAD guys may be highly trained as well and may function more like GIJoe at times than any conventional unit. Still I know you won't be putting a Stryker Brigade at the top of your list.
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Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery? http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...r1s-b-s-t.html |
09-19-2009, 11:42 PM | #9210 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
A bit tangential to your question, but this is something I want to tackle. The thing that bothers me with current depictions of GI Joe is that they're portrayed as some sort of super-secret covert action group. Truth is, only the CIA (and their SAD) is legally allowed by the US Constitution to conduct covert action special missions. For reference, see the National Security Act of 1947, Executive Order 12333 (signed by Ronald Reagan in 1984), and the 1991 Intelligence Authorization Act. Department of Defense entities such as USSOCOM can designate certain operations as top secret or classified, but they cannot legally conduct deniable operations. It just seems odd to me that for all of Hama's writing that the Joes are the ultimate defenders of the US Constitution, the way he's set the team up is in direct contravention of it. I'm not a big fan of the whole "to defend the Constitution one has to violate it" way of thinking.
Are you referring to IDW, because It's sort of bothering me as well. I guess they sort of function like the SAD does, but at the end of the day, those guys go home to their wives the Joes are technically dead. I don't mind the notion that they do whatever it takes, or to quote the movie, "When all else fails, we don't." I guess they don't fall under USSOCOM. But that takes some of the fun out of it. But its a new story so we'll see how it shakes out. I'm behind a few issues because my local comic stores SUUCKK! I still think they can't stay hidden for much longer. The Joes have a terrible track record with underground bases getting blown up or attacked. |
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