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09-17-2009, 12:51 AM | #9111 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pulaski, VA
Posts: 738
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Isn't one of the things that Larry Hama didn't like about Duke was that he was viewed as being interchangeable with Hake and I think Flint?
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09-17-2009, 09:25 AM | #9112 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,157
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Quote:
The original Hawk figure didn't stand out from the rest of the original 13. He wasn't even billed as the team leader on his filecard, at least not blatantly. His grade was given as 0-6 and there was a reference to him being "an excellent leader" but nothing about his figure screamed commanding officer. So Hasbro creates Duke with the expressed intention of making him a leader and the main character of the cartoon. Now, Hama has to make him fit whether he likes it or not. Hawk takes a backseat until he gets his own newly sculpted figure three years later. If I'm not mistaken, there was some discussion about making Duke an officer instead of a senior NCO. I prefer Duke as a sergeant but I wonder if it would have been less confusing, and ultimately more militarily accurate, if Duke had been a captain or a major. Him filling Hawk's role would have made much more sense. Probably why he's an officer in ROC. Last edited by lister; 09-17-2009 at 09:28 AM.. |
09-17-2009, 09:26 AM | #9113 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Quote:
SP4 is the only specialist rank still in use. The other higher specialist ranks were abolished.
http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r600_20.pdf page 10 |
09-17-2009, 09:30 AM | #9114 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
I think Hasbro was trying too hard to come up with an "All-American" character... as if the other characters weren't "American" enough or something. Duke is like a poster boy for the Aryan ideal... ridiculous.
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
09-17-2009, 09:39 AM | #9115 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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I didn't really mind Duke until much much later when he became the epitome of the all American soldier for GI Joe. Early in the comics he sort of took a back seat, making appearances here and there. Now he's in every comic issue, on almost every front page, and is the main character of RoC and Resolute. It's a bit overkill.
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09-17-2009, 09:39 AM | #9116 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
Like Loose Cannon said, Hasbro kind of saddled Hama with Duke. Hama always viewed Stalker as the natural choice for the team's top sergeant. The physical resemblance between Hawk and Duke contributed to the notion that these guys were interchangeable. They were considered "leaders" in the generic sense of the word. Hasbro probably didn't give much thought to the differences bewteen generals and sergeants and the roles they fill in a military unit. It seems like Hasbro thought you could just slot Duke into the same job Hawk had and it would be totally acceptable. But anybody with any sort of understanding about how rank structures work in the military realizes it's kind of out of whack.
The original Hawk figure didn't stand out from the rest of the original 13. He wasn't even billed as the team leader on his filecard, at least not blatantly. His grade was given as 0-6 and there was a reference to him being "an excellent leader" but nothing about his figure screamed commanding officer. So Hasbro creates Duke with the expressed intention of making him a leader and the main character of the cartoon. Now, Hama has to make him fit whether he likes it or not. Hawk takes a backseat until he gets his own newly sculpted figure three years later. If I'm not mistaken, there was some discussion about making Duke an officer instead of a senior NCO. I prefer Duke as a sergeant but I wonder if it would have been less confusing, and ultimately more militarily accurate, if Duke had been a captain or a major. Him filling Hawk's role would have made much more sense. Probably why he's an officer in ROC. However, at this point, I can't see Duke as anything but a Senior NCO. I use the ROC Duke figure as a new officer character named "Striker".
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
09-17-2009, 09:57 AM | #9117 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Duke's filecard clearly states that he was offered a Commission but flatly refused because he wanted to be in the Field with the Troops. So he deserves some amount of respect for that alone.
(I feel like this was repeated with a new chartacter recently? Anyone?) Personally I couldn't stand the fact that Duke being clearly portrayed as a leader was not an officer. I think as the teams First Sgt he would be very much involved in many command decisions. As would Flint. But in the End Hawk would need an XO who was at least a Major. So I think this is something ROC did right by the Duke Character. (Casting is another issue) Now I use the Resolute Duke as a Major and he is therefore more rightfully involved in the conversation, "First is Hawk, then Duke, then Me, Then Slaughter(Topic of another coversation), then Beachhead." I chose to call my ROC Duke Rapid-Fire. But Striker is a Great Name Oliver. I know I will use it at some point. We almost need another thread for renaming your Joes. |
09-17-2009, 10:13 AM | #9118 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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It's kind of funny how some months ago Oliver contacted Hama and we were all excited about asking him questions about the development, rank structure and organization of GI Joe, but when we found that we invested more thought and time into its organization than he did, we soon lost interest. Did we every find out how Larry viewed the Joe's organization? Did he see them as a small Delta-like unit or an elite company or something the size of a brigade with combined arms?
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09-17-2009, 10:35 AM | #9119 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I think to Hama it is what it is. I don't remember him ever using Green Shirts. The Flagg was another thing. So Everyone was active and the older members were pushing the paperwork. With only a few instances the comic never had more than 12 characters at a time. But only Grunt Retired so in the end it was like 150 right?
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09-17-2009, 10:40 AM | #9120 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,157
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Quote:
It's kind of funny how some months ago Oliver contacted Hama and we were all excited about asking him questions about the development, rank structure and organization of GI Joe, but when we found that we invested more thought and time into its organization than he did, we soon lost interest. Did we every find out how Larry viewed the Joe's organization? Did he see them as a small Delta-like unit or an elite company or something the size of a brigade with combined arms?
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