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09-04-2009, 01:19 AM | #8881 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Air-to-Ground, yes
Air-to-Air, why?
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09-04-2009, 01:24 AM | #8882 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Well, a lot of air craft are duel purpose. For example the Marine Corps uses F-18's for air support. They take off from carriers, can conduct Air to Air missions, and can serve to support troops.
Most fighters can support troops. Ground troops laze targerts, or call for air support, fighter are able to shoot missiles at ground targets. But it's also a matter of controlling the air space. An A-10 or similar aircraft cannot control Air-Space because they're susceptible to fighter jets. So if the Joes use A-10s, a cobra fighter (like the new Crimson Hydra) would take it out pretty quickly. Then the Joes have no ground support or air cover. Basically, a battle ground has to be dealt with 3 dimensionally. The Air Space has to be controlled in order for the ground troops to take control of real estate. Without fighter jets, Cobra couldn't invade France. And not just because of the Foreign Legion... the French Air Force, with it's fighters would eat them for breakfast. Yeah, the FRENCH Air Force... and that's just sad.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
09-04-2009, 01:31 AM | #8883 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Troynos, there's a very simple solution for this problem, and you can keep your mountain base... just add the Flagg to the equation. It's an instant launching platform for all types of aircraft to any battlefield the Joes need to deploy to. They can keep all the aircraft on the Flagg... that way it's mobile and not a stationary air field/target. It also doesn't require your mountain base to accommodate Aircraft.
As for Cobra, they can store their stuff where ever they want.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
09-04-2009, 01:35 AM | #8884 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Have some points there. But I think that's where the normal Air Force comes into.
I just don't think the Joes need their own dedicated air force. That's alot of support personal that are required, as well as dedicated air fields and all of that. Also how do you get that stuff all over the world? VTOLS are easier because they don't need the landing strips. Takes awhile to get the Skystrikers from the main airfield down to Sierra Gordo in time to make a big difference. Or hope that the Flagg is nearby. With VTOLs, they just need a decent sized clearing. So it eliminates the need for huge landing fields. Also gets rid of the issue of getting the fighter jets to where they are needed most in the quickest time. Problem with the Flagg is personal size and location. So the Flagg is in the atlantic, but the jets are needed in australia. Do they have the range to make it without stopping? Wouldn't it be easier to just co-op the local fighter wings from the nearest base?
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09-04-2009, 01:44 AM | #8885 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Well, the Joes fight covertly, so "regular Air Force" might not be a viable option. The "Regular Air Force" can't just fly missions to deal with Cobra in foreign countries... that takes a very public act by the President, approved by Congress. As I said above, using the Flagg keeps your Joe Air Force small and mobile and eliminates the need of a stationary air field.
VTOL is great, but the Harrier Jump Jet is the only fighter with that capability, and VTOL takes a tremendous amount of fuel. THe new Joint Strike Fighter may have VTOL capability, but fuel is necessary. If the Joes are in a big enough battle to need Air Power, then the Flagg is going to be the best option. If their operation is small enough not to need air power (or if air power is just not an option because of air space restrictions) then the Joes had better be ready to bug out quick if things escalate. I mean, if they're in a fire fight in the open, and Cobra starts to send in a Crimson Hydra or a Liquidator or one of their VTOL jets. If that happens, and the Joes don't have any Jets to back them up - game over. Jet's versus no jets, that'll ruin your day.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
09-04-2009, 02:55 AM | #8886 |
I'm a Leadfarmer!
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 545
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Quote:
The Accelerator Suits totally lend to being Super Troopers. I've never thought much of it until I was re-reading posts in this thread and it's a great idea! I may have to consider doing this for my own Modern Update to my Joeverse now. Thanks for the ideas Oliverbox & Mikevoltz.
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Bulkhide's Top-Ten Favorite Joes: Beachhead, Dusty, Roadblock, Flint, Lady Jaye, Ambush, Shockwave, Pathfinder, Rock-n-Roll, & Snake Eyes. <(^.^<)......(>^o^)>......\(^w^)/......\m/(^O^)\m/ |
09-04-2009, 10:06 AM | #8887 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
I have to say this is friggin' brilliant!
The Accelerator Suits totally lend to being Super Troopers. I've never thought much of it until I was re-reading posts in this thread and it's a great idea! I may have to consider doing this for my own Modern Update to my Joeverse now. Thanks for the ideas Oliverbox & Mikevoltz. Yeah, the Super Trooper idea just came to me. Mikevoltz had thought of the same idea on his own, but he and I often agree about stuff around here. Glad you agree.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
09-04-2009, 11:21 AM | #8888 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
|
Quote:
Well, the Joes fight covertly, so "regular Air Force" might not be a viable option. The "Regular Air Force" can't just fly missions to deal with Cobra in foreign countries... that takes a very public act by the President, approved by Congress. As I said above, using the Flagg keeps your Joe Air Force small and mobile and eliminates the need of a stationary air field.
VTOL is great, but the Harrier Jump Jet is the only fighter with that capability, and VTOL takes a tremendous amount of fuel. THe new Joint Strike Fighter may have VTOL capability, but fuel is necessary. If the Joes are in a big enough battle to need Air Power, then the Flagg is going to be the best option. If their operation is small enough not to need air power (or if air power is just not an option because of air space restrictions) then the Joes had better be ready to bug out quick if things escalate. I mean, if they're in a fire fight in the open, and Cobra starts to send in a Crimson Hydra or a Liquidator or one of their VTOL jets. If that happens, and the Joes don't have any Jets to back them up - game over. Jet's versus no jets, that'll ruin your day. And the Joe jets have the same issues that regular air force would have with foreign airspace. Unauthorized jets flying into foreign air space, that country will be scrambling their own air force to deal with it. I think thats another reason that Cobra would use their air-to-air inlimited capacity as well. They're a terrorist organization. The second one or two of their jets are spotted, they're going to have that countries air force scrambling and on their tail in no time. They won't even have a chance to get to the combat theatre before getting into dogfights. Two countries in, that's two engagements they'd have to deal with before even getting to the Joes. I think I remember hearing back in Desert Storm that we had a hard time sending jets to the theater because we weren't given clearance to fly thru French air space. The Joe jets, no matter where they launch from, would have the same issues, they'd have to get clearances to fly into foreign air space. And at that point, the covert nature is out the window, and might as well use the regular Air Force/Navy (which has bases all over the world and dozens of air craft carriers all over the world, which then gets rid of the near-by location issue) and not deal with all the logistical headaches associated with the Joes having their own air force. How often were the Skystrikers and Conquests used in support of ground operations in the comics? They were usually shown as Joe air vs Cobra air, or in a recon capacity. In the cartoon.. well.. won't even go there.... Also, if a Joe operation gets to the point where you're worried about air superiority, something went very wrong.
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09-04-2009, 12:29 PM | #8889 |
I'm a Leadfarmer!
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 545
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Quote:
Great to see you on our thread. I've been reading your some of posts lately, Bulkhide, glad to have you on this thread. I lived in North Carolina for 4 years, so I try to keep up with the Tar Heel Tankers. It's a great State.
Yeah, the Super Trooper idea just came to me. Mikevoltz had thought of the same idea on his own, but he and I often agree about stuff around here. Glad you agree.
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Bulkhide's Top-Ten Favorite Joes: Beachhead, Dusty, Roadblock, Flint, Lady Jaye, Ambush, Shockwave, Pathfinder, Rock-n-Roll, & Snake Eyes. <(^.^<)......(>^o^)>......\(^w^)/......\m/(^O^)\m/ |
09-04-2009, 12:35 PM | #8890 |
G.I.Joe medic
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Litchfield, ME
Posts: 3,171
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Well, IIRC, in issues 14, 17, & 19 of the Marvel run, the Skystriker is mainly used in support of ground troops, although it does some aerial combat in 17. When the Conquest debuted in #54, it does air-to-ground and air-to-air. The Stealthfighter was primarily used against targets on the ground. Come to think of it, I believe most of the "dogfight" stories took place over the ocean or Cobra Island, issue 34 being the exception.
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