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07-29-2009, 02:51 AM | #7821 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Quote:
Could be. And I know we're just going off of conjecture at this point, but I wonder why a guy like Lattimer made the program, while, say, Falcon or Claymore (who seem to have comparable qualifications, at least if you go by their filecards) didn't. |
07-29-2009, 03:39 AM | #7822 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
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Quote:
If the Super Trooper program trains officers for certain kinds of operations, who knows how they get selected. Could be an issue of technical skills, psychological testing, etc. It could just be a training program that Falcon and Claymore weren't interested in. Besides that, Falcon and Claymore's operations were all probably off book. Lattimer and London were both decorated for combat actions... Falcon and Claymore's actions may have been so secret that they received no medals. The other possibility is that Lattimer and London really are that good. They might really be that much better than the other officers. Maybe they really do put the "SUPER" in "Super Trooper".
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07-29-2009, 08:25 AM | #7823 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
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I'll have to dig thru my files for European Mission #12 and see what it's all about.
I think we need to nail down and define what the "super trooper" or "fast attack" program was all about. My thought was that the officer training was intended to develop officers that can be dropped into any combat situation and "think on their feet", that don't need to be in almost-constant contact with the base to get order changes, that they can "think on the fly" when something happens and react "instantly" to a rapidly changing battle front. Which I guess you would want all Joe officers to be able to react like that. So it gets back to what made Lattimer, London and DeNiro so different then Falcon, Claymore, Duke, Grid-Iron and so on? Grid-Iron's a west point grad, so what made him not eligible for the program? Now, this may be a stretch, but the idea for Super Trooper and Rapid Fire was back 20+ years ago. That was when the idea of small unit tactics (what is now the 6 man fireteam) and counterterrorism was relatively new. Could this have been the fictional reaction to that change in military thinking? Back then the training was primarily battlefield tactics, right? Could this have been a reaction to looking at where military tactics/training was heading? So the Fast Attack program was a more small unit based reactionary training program meant to develop people which are basically what the SEaL and Delta teams do now?
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07-29-2009, 09:46 AM | #7824 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
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I think there is evidence to show that Rapid Fire's program was the same as Paul Lattimer's program. For example, RF's file card mentions the Army's new school for "Fast Attack Maneuver". Lattimer's file card simply says the school is Top Secret. It's not unreasonable to think it's the same school.
RF's file card says that the object of the program was to produce highly motivated individuals with advanced technical skills for light ordinance assault operations deep within enemy territory. Lattimer's file card says that the object of his program was to produce highly motivated individuals with advanced technical skills for assault operations deep within enemy territory. The only difference is that RF specialized in light ordinance operations. I think there is a reasonable argument for understanding that Rapid Fire and Lattimer went through the same program and specialized in different areas. They are both officers, so an MOS comparison doesn't exactly fit, but it's almost like Lattimer is an 18/11 B, and RF is like an 18/11 C - slightly different Special Forces/Infantry skill sets. If these characters do represent different specialties within the same Program, then perhaps this can explain the different colors to the same toy mold. Perhaps the similarities of uniform start to make sense.
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07-29-2009, 04:21 PM | #7825 |
Hog Driver
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Location: Georgia
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I'm not sure if this is the issue you're speaking of, but here's a link to an Action Force comic with Super Trooper.
SUPER TROOPER! |
07-29-2009, 04:29 PM | #7826 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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According to this issue, Goddard and DeNiro were both SAS.
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07-29-2009, 04:40 PM | #7827 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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Some other details:
The Super Trooper program has a washout rate of over 80%. Flint and Falcon oversee the final stages of training with Hawk. Goddard and DeNiro are pilots and Skystriker qualified. The Super Troopers are INDEED Super! Whoever translated this issue needs to learn some English. |
07-29-2009, 05:09 PM | #7828 |
disgruntled goat
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NYS- Finger Lakes
Posts: 2,110
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Quote:
I'm not sure if this is the issue you're speaking of, but here's a link to an Action Force comic with Super Trooper.
SUPER TROOPER! 1. they weren't Americans- does this mean that all Joe/US allied countries would be able to submit entries to the program? 2. Flint says there can be only one Super Trooper. Does he mean one at a time (so Latimer would have to die before they would look for his replacement) or one from each class? 3. somebody here mentioned about them being officers and possibly being trained to lead teams, but it says both in the comic and Latimer's file card that they have to be self sufficient and operate with virtually no support respectively. sounds to me like the idea was more for an all- natural Captain America. |
07-29-2009, 09:15 PM | #7829 |
Bravo Team Weapons Sgt
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Xavier
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07-29-2009, 11:37 PM | #7830 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
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Thanks for posting the link to the comic. I think it was very helpful. Obviously some unbelievable comic stuff happens, but all in all I think it provides an account of training that can be adapted into a realistic Joeverse.
THe question remains: how do we understand Super Trooper? Rapid Fire and Lattimer and De Niro were equiped like the new Pit Commando, and if they came with larger shields (like the one from the upcoming 5 pack) and in different Paint schemes - for example: RF in Urban camo, Lattimer in Jungle/woodland camo, De Niro in Desert Camo - I think these characters could really work well. It's interesting that Goddard will be remembered as a Super Trooper... which begs the question: Does there only have to be one? ONE per specialty? If Lattimer is an 18/11 B, and RF is like an 18/11 C, would De Niro be like an 18/Intelligence Operative (His specialty was Covert Operations)... sort of like a Claymore of the Super Troopers?
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
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