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07-15-2009, 12:07 AM | #7501 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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You can always take the discussion to PM if you really want to hear people's thoughts in a manner that won't break the forum rules. Maybe have a roundtable discussion via PM. I wouldn't mind moderating a "serious" discussion myself (one that necessitates citing credible references, texts, and data, and not the type of pseudo-discussion that involves ripping on each other's beliefs and political alignment) if I wasn't so sure that it would be too time-consuming and effort-intensive to do so.
Last edited by zuludelta; 07-15-2009 at 12:10 AM.. |
07-15-2009, 12:47 AM | #7502 |
G.I.Joe medic
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Litchfield, ME
Posts: 3,171
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I could actually see Hawk going rogue if he felt that the politicians and armchair warriors were hamstringing his efforts to defeat Cobra. He might start a completely new unit, or encourage some of the current team to go with him. Sorry, but I think Snake Eyes is too obvious a choice for a rogue agent.
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07-15-2009, 01:23 AM | #7503 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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I personally can't see any of the Joes "going rogue" whilst still enlisted or serving out their commission. It just goes against a primary Joe characteristic as established by Larry Hama, I think (that characteristic being that Joes will do their jobs, whether they agree with the thinking behind it or not). The Joes are professionals, not loose cannon Hollywood movie types.
I think the Joes are intelligent enough and principled enough that they will disobey and protest illegal military orders, though (an illegal military order is one that contravenes the Constitution, treaties, and statutes). I would go so far as to say that it is an implicit part of a soldier's duty to recognize when such orders are in place (especially since no Western military tribunal will recognize "I was just following orders" as a valid defense for committing crimes in the line of duty). |
07-15-2009, 01:45 AM | #7504 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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I think SE would be the first of example of a rogue warrior, but even SE has morals, except for the time when Storm Shadow put the ninja mindset on him while Scarlett was in a coma.
I've been trying to put together an outline for a story about the early Joes in Vietnam and I was thinking about putting one of them, perhaps Recondo, in Tiger Force. Some of the Joes will serve together and others will meet at Recondo school or out in the bush and form friendships that eventually bring them back together when the Joe team is formed. I'm using file cards and the marvel comics to piece together the moment when Hawk recruits the original thirteen but I'm not sure how to explain the Joe team that existed before them. Colton first created the team in 1964 under the appointment of JFK, but the original Joes do not join until the mid 70s. According to the comics, Snake Eyes fought during the Tet Offensive. He was in Nam on Jan 31, 1968 when the Baroness's brother was killed. We also know that he and Tommy had been in Nam for a whole tour when Collins, Escobedo and Saperstein are killed during the infamous recon mission, and Stalker had only been with them for 6 months at that point. So if we assume that SE met Stalker at the beginning of 1968 and 6 months later he gets wounded and sent home, then he would have left for Japan sometime later that year. We know he stays in Japan for three years and then goes home to live in the High Sierras for another three years when Hawk and Stalker recruit him. That means that the original 13 started training together around '74-75. My question is: what kind of unit was the Joe team prior to Hawk and his men? What happened to Colton and the Joes he assembled in the mid 60s? Were they like a Tiger Force that had to pulled out and disbanded and rebuilt again after the war? Perhaps that's why Hawk and the others never heard of Colton until they met him around issue 88 or so. Perhaps Colton and his team were wiped from the records because something unspeakable went down. |
07-15-2009, 01:57 AM | #7505 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Filecard/Composite Image Updates for 14 July 2009
Mirage & Crazylegs Design notes: - My concept for Mirage is based on the third version of the figure, which was clothed in an all-green outfit (instead of the radioactive blue of the original figure). I translated the green into a modern woodland MARPAT pattern. Updated his personal info a bit: changed his birthplace from "Molsen, Washington" -- a misspelling of "Molson, Washington," I think -- to "Oroville, Washington," the reason being that Molson is a ghost town and is classified as an unincorporated non-census designated area. Most other Joe birthplaces in the US are incorporated census designated population centers, so I switched to Oroville, the closest census-designated incorporated population center to Moslon (about a couple of miles from the ghost town). - Crazylegs was tough to redesign. I initially wanted to outfit him in parachutist gear, but I wasn't happy with any of the results (this is also why I took down the Altitude concept pic I posted earlier... not too happy with it and I'll be reworking it). Instead, I opted for a "post-parachuting" look, with the parachute pack and accoutrements already dispensed with (except for the ankle/shin support straps). I also replaced the bright reds of the original character with desaturated browns and tans, in keeping with the approach I've already fostered with other neon/bright red-clad figures. To read their full filecards, click on the Filecard Project link in my signature. |
07-15-2009, 02:16 AM | #7506 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
|
Good question. I don't have a ready response, though, as I don't think the topic was ever explored in any detail by Hama or any other Joe writer. I think it's fairly open to interpretation and you can go nuts with it... maybe have the original Joe team be composed of younger versions of Generals Colton, Flagg & Hollingsworth, Admiral Dyson, GI Jane... maybe throw in a Juggler or two (maybe they're the ones who cause the dissolution of the original Joe unit). Heck, you can throw in Cobra Commander's soldier older brother just to keep up the Hama tradition of having every familial relation coincidentally tied together.
Last edited by zuludelta; 07-15-2009 at 02:19 AM.. |
07-15-2009, 09:33 AM | #7507 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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I like Zulu's idea of the original unit having Colton, Flagg, Hollingsworth and so on. CC's older brother would fit in with what's been established but I don't like it, lol.
My idea for it would have been a Mission Impossible type unit. Colton (and maybe his XO Flagg), comprise the unit on a "per mission" basis. They select who's needed by who's available and who's around the mission zone. They'd come in, grab some team members for this "off the books" mission, do the mission, come back and the team would be dissolved.
__________________
Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
07-15-2009, 09:36 AM | #7508 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
Filecard/Composite Image Updates for 14 July 2009
Mirage & Crazylegs Design notes: - My concept for Mirage is based on the third version of the figure, which was clothed in an all-green outfit (instead of the radioactive blue of the original figure). I translated the green into a modern woodland MARPAT pattern. Updated his personal info a bit: changed his birthplace from "Molsen, Washington" -- a misspelling of "Molson, Washington," I think -- to "Oroville, Washington," the reason being that Molson is a ghost town and is classified as an unincorporated non-census designated area. Most other Joe birthplaces in the US are incorporated census designated population centers, so I switched to Oroville, the closest census-designated incorporated population center to Moslon (about a couple of miles from the ghost town). - Crazylegs was tough to redesign. I initially wanted to outfit him in parachutist gear, but I wasn't happy with any of the results (this is also why I took down the Altitude concept pic I posted earlier... not too happy with it and I'll be reworking it). Instead, I opted for a "post-parachuting" look, with the parachute pack and accoutrements already dispensed with (except for the ankle/shin support straps). I also replaced the bright reds of the original character with desaturated browns and tans, in keeping with the approach I've already fostered with other neon/bright red-clad figures. To read their full filecards, click on the Filecard Project link in my signature. Crazylegs was always a favorite of mine. Great work.
__________________
Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
07-15-2009, 01:32 PM | #7509 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
|
Quote:
Always wondered what those things were on his boots in the original toy. He looked like he was wearing the Stomper boots from the godawful Super Mario Brothers movie. |
07-15-2009, 01:43 PM | #7510 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Grand Junction,Colorado
Posts: 201
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In the Marvel 155 Issues of G.I.Joe,there are a lot of what ifs.
Short of making sure that Cobra Commander stayed captured would have shortwened the series quit a bit. Or having Billy actually shoot Cobra Commander/Father would have changed the series a lot. What if Snake Eyes` sister had survived the crash that killed their parents? What if Snake Eyes hadn`t been disfigured in the helicopter accident? What if Zartan had missed Serpentor at the end of the Cobra Civil War? What if Tomax and Xamot had excepted the G.I.Joes surrender during the battle in Trucial Abysmia? During the G.I.Joe series,the characters didn`t age very fast. They didn`t start showing their age until troward the end of the series,where they were about to be disbanded. The characters we did see grow up during the series was Billy and the family of Wade Collins. During the G.I.Joe Series we all saw Snake Eyes get injured a lot,but we never saw how bad his face looked. Only toward the end,when he tries to rescue Storm Shadow from Cobra Commander do we see what his face looks like. |
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