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06-17-2009, 11:21 PM | #6951 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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Quote:
That sounds about right Tanksmasher, the eyes for the ordinance and the guiding for those bringing death from above! Sneak a Peek is the one that I always considered as the forward eyes even though his uniform was not likely a great idea for being very covert in the different train!
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06-18-2009, 12:36 AM | #6952 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
So let me see if I have this down right. Each branch has its own Forward Air Controller, though the Army's FACs are limited.
The Army uses JSOs (Joint Fires observers), previously known as FACs, and before that they were called FAGs (Forward Air Guides)--gee, I wonder how many complaints it took before they changed this name! And FOs (Forward Observers) are primarily used for mortar and artillery guidance, and sometimes Close Air Support--but that's primarily the job of a JSO. The Navy and Marines use JTACs (Joint Terminal Attack Controllers), also called FACs. And the USAF uses CCTs (Combat Controll Teams). Joint Terminal Attack Controller or JTAC (sometimes called ETAC -- Enlisted Tactical Air Controller) is simply the new name for what used to be known as forward air controllers -- the guys who went in with the ground forces and helped direct close air support. Every service has a JTAC-related MOS, duty code, or classification. The Marines have the Joint Terminal Attack Controller MOS (MOS 8002 -- restricted to staff sergeants and above), the Navy has the Joint Terminal Attack Controller enlisted classification code (NEC 5304 -- restricted to Special Warfare Operators/SEALs), the Army has the Tactical Air Operations additional skill (ASI Q8, restricted to fire support specialists and senior enlisted infantrymen and special forces NCOs), and the Air Force has the Tactical Air Command & Control Specialist (AFSC 1C4X1; commonly referred to as a ROMAD -- short for their old duty during the Vietnam War, which was "Radio Operator-Maintainer and Driver," although in current informal use, ROMAD has become a backronym for "Recon, Observe, Mark, and Destroy," although some will say that it more accurately stands for "Rude, Obnoxious, Mean-Ass Drunk" ). Currently, training has been unified and most qualified JTACs, regardless of branch of service, are graduates of the JFCC (Joint Firepower Control Course -- mostly taught by USAF instructors, if I'm not mistaken), although the Air Force has more extensive training for their Tactical Air Command & Control Specialists (more on them below). In the Marines and in the Army, many JTACs can also serve as forward observers for artillery, because the source pool for JTAC trainees is primarily the fire support/forward observer community (i.e., soldiers who hold MOS 13F or Marines who hold MOS 0861). Additionally, Army and USMC fire support specialists can also attend the Joint Fires Observer (JFO) course. The JFO course is related to, but is not the same as the JFCC. Attending the Joint Fires Observer course doesn't qualify a soldier or a marine as a JTAC, but it gives them basic knowledge on how to direct close air support (CAS), and how to coordinate CAS with ground and naval artillery fires. There tends to be some confusion between Air Force Tactical Air Command & Control Specialists (AFSC 1C4X1; a.k.a. Tactical Air Controllers) and Air Force Combat Controllers (AFSC 1C2X1). Tactical Air Controllers are the "true" JTACs in the USAF, air traffic controllers who've subspecialized in joint terminal attack control. On the other hand, Combat Control is an air traffic control-related specialty that focuses on deep insertion combat pathfinding and "commando-style" seizure of hostile airfields, and it's considered a special operations field. Many combat controllers are qualified JTACs but one doesn't have to be a qualified JTAC to be a Combat Controller (one just has to be a trained air traffic controller). A Tactical Air Command & Control Specialist, on the other hand, has to be a qualified JTAC (because that's their main job). There's a lot of overlap between their duties though, since both Tactical Air Controllers and Combat Controllers are air traffic controllers first and foremost. Additionally, although Tactical Air Controllers aren't normatively considered as combat units like their Combat Control brethren, many Tactical Air Controllers receive advanced firearms training and some even undergo cross-training in the Army's Ranger School (primnarily so they can keep up with the infantry units they support). Still, it's what the two specialties do beyond basic air traffic control that sets them apart from each other and where the major differences lie (and make no mistake, they are very different from each other -- and I'm not just talking about what colour beret each is entitled to wear). EDIT: I forgot to mention that there are also Air Liaison Officers (ALOs). ALOs are pilots or navigators who've undergone JFCC training. They primarily serve as advisers to the ground force commander on matters concerning the use of airpower and close air support, but they will occasionally go out into the field with the enlisted JTACs as part of the TACP (Tactical Air Control Party). Last edited by zuludelta; 06-18-2009 at 01:31 AM.. |
06-18-2009, 01:11 AM | #6953 |
Gear-Viper
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Cobra Island
Posts: 229
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I dont know if this was mention before, but Wild Bill was a real pilot in WWI. William "Wild Bill" Wellman was also an Oscar-winning screenwriter-director, who directed the 1945 classic film: The Story of G.I. Joe.
Of course, the Wild Bill character was written as yarn-spinning, Texan cowboy. |
06-18-2009, 01:32 AM | #6954 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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I didn't know that. He also sort of looks like Wild Bill, at least in the pic included on the following page:
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06-18-2009, 08:38 AM | #6955 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
I dont know if this was mention before, but Wild Bill was a real pilot in WWI. William "Wild Bill" Wellman was also an Oscar-winning screenwriter-director, who directed the 1945 classic film: The Story of G.I. Joe.
Of course, the Wild Bill character was written as yarn-spinning, Texan cowboy.
__________________
Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
06-18-2009, 08:49 AM | #6956 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
You've got the general idea down, but here are some clarifications and corrections.
Joint Terminal Attack Controller or JTAC (sometimes called ETAC -- Enlisted Tactical Air Controller) is simply the new name for what used to be known as forward air controllers -- the guys who went in with the ground forces and helped direct close air support. Every service has a JTAC-related MOS, duty code, or classification. The Marines have the Joint Terminal Attack Controller MOS (MOS 8002 -- restricted to staff sergeants and above), the Navy has the Joint Terminal Attack Controller enlisted classification code (NEC 5304 -- restricted to Special Warfare Operators/SEALs), the Army has the Tactical Air Operations additional skill (ASI Q8, restricted to fire support specialists and senior enlisted infantrymen and special forces NCOs), and the Air Force has the Tactical Air Command & Control Specialist (AFSC 1C4X1; commonly referred to as a ROMAD -- short for their old duty during the Vietnam War, which was "Radio Operator-Maintainer and Driver," although in current informal use, ROMAD has become a backronym for "Recon, Observe, Mark, and Destroy," although some will say that it more accurately stands for "Rude, Obnoxious, Mean-Ass Drunk" ). Currently, training has been unified and most qualified JTACs, regardless of branch of service, are graduates of the JFCC (Joint Firepower Control Course -- mostly taught by USAF instructors, if I'm not mistaken), although the Air Force has more extensive training for their Tactical Air Command & Control Specialists (more on them below). In the Marines and in the Army, many JTACs can also serve as forward observers for artillery, because the source pool for JTAC trainees is primarily the fire support/forward observer community (i.e., soldiers who hold MOS 13F or Marines who hold MOS 0861). Additionally, Army and USMC fire support specialists can also attend the Joint Fires Observer (JFO) course. The JFO course is related to, but is not the same as the JFCC. Attending the Joint Fires Observer course doesn't qualify a soldier or a marine as a JTAC, but it gives them basic knowledge on how to direct close air support (CAS), and how to coordinate CAS with ground and naval artillery fires. There tends to be some confusion between Air Force Tactical Air Command & Control Specialists (AFSC 1C4X1; a.k.a. Tactical Air Controllers) and Air Force Combat Controllers (AFSC 1C2X1). Tactical Air Controllers are the "true" JTACs in the USAF, air traffic controllers who've subspecialized in joint terminal attack control. On the other hand, Combat Control is an air traffic control-related specialty that focuses on deep insertion combat pathfinding and "commando-style" seizure of hostile airfields, and it's considered a special operations field. Many combat controllers are qualified JTACs but one doesn't have to be a qualified JTAC to be a Combat Controller (one just has to be a trained air traffic controller). A Tactical Air Command & Control Specialist, on the other hand, has to be a qualified JTAC (because that's their main job). There's a lot of overlap between their duties though, since both Tactical Air Controllers and Combat Controllers are air traffic controllers first and foremost. Additionally, although Tactical Air Controllers aren't normatively considered as combat units like their Combat Control brethren, many Tactical Air Controllers receive advanced firearms training and some even undergo cross-training in the Army's Ranger School (primnarily so they can keep up with the infantry units they support). Still, it's what the two specialties do beyond basic air traffic control that sets them apart from each other and where the major differences lie (and make no mistake, they are very different from each other -- and I'm not just talking about what colour beret each is entitled to wear). EDIT: I forgot to mention that there are also Air Liaison Officers (ALOs). ALOs are pilots or navigators who've undergone JFCC training. They primarily serve as advisers to the ground force commander on matters concerning the use of airpower and close air support, but they will occasionally go out into the field with the enlisted JTACs as part of the TACP (Tactical Air Control Party).
__________________
Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
06-18-2009, 09:12 AM | #6957 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hope, ME
Posts: 4,736
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Quote:
I dont know if this was mention before, but Wild Bill was a real pilot in WWI. William "Wild Bill" Wellman was also an Oscar-winning screenwriter-director, who directed the 1945 classic film: The Story of G.I. Joe.
Of course, the Wild Bill character was written as yarn-spinning, Texan cowboy.
__________________
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06-18-2009, 09:15 AM | #6958 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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It definately helps make sense of Wild Bill's Fixed Wing Pilot SMS.
__________________
Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
06-18-2009, 09:16 AM | #6959 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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Quote:
I dont know if this was mention before, but Wild Bill was a real pilot in WWI. William "Wild Bill" Wellman was also an Oscar-winning screenwriter-director, who directed the 1945 classic film: The Story of G.I. Joe.
Of course, the Wild Bill character was written as yarn-spinning, Texan cowboy. |
06-18-2009, 09:17 AM | #6960 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
|
Zulu, I thought I read somewhere that the Marines required their JTACs to be aviators. Is this not the case anymore?
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