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06-17-2009, 09:29 AM | #6931 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
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Quote:
See what's the difference of a Combat Controller who would be working with Delta Force or Green Berets and these 24thSpecial Tactics CCT commandos? Same training just now there is a whole platoon of them? or Company? I feel like an Airport seizure requires at least a company of men 75-150. Maybe more.
Or is it just more of the military redundancy.
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06-17-2009, 09:46 AM | #6932 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stone Mountain, GA
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Quote:
Red Dog is awesomesauce. |
06-17-2009, 10:58 AM | #6933 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I'm guessing not. But perhaps they interchange these units depending on location and size of the mission. I wonder where JTACs and Combat Controllers fall in line with the USSOCOM structure. If the 24th Special Tactics is in direct command of the USSOCOM commander as are Delta and DEVGRU do those particular units just use those guys. It seem like you only get a few Combat controllers on loan to you, not a whole unit.
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06-17-2009, 12:11 PM | #6934 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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How to use Salvo, Backblast and Heavy Duty. Are they portable anti-aircraft and attached to a fireteam unit? Are they gunners with the towable artillery? Are they portable anti-aircraft attached to the artillery teams?
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06-17-2009, 12:17 PM | #6935 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Ha!
I used Cary Hiroyuku Tagawa's face for Budo. You may remember him as the guy who played Shang Tsung in the first Mortal Kombat film. He's got one of those "interesting" faces. Not conventionally attractive by Hollywood standards, but he's got a really expressive face that packs a lot of "storytelling" punch. Other performers whose faces I would put in this group: Steve Buscemi, Gary Oldman, Illeana Douglas, William H. Macy, Christopher Walken, Rowan Atkinson... Quote:
Quote:
I mixed it up a little with the Joe's SRT by being more specific with the first two defenseman positions, listing Barbecue as the Tactical Breaching Specialist (the defenseman primarily in charge of explosive and non-explosive breaching duties) and Topside as an Assaulter (the defenseman primarily tasked with covering the point man during maneuvers and the first to enter a known hostile area for the purposes of engagement... as opposed to the point man, who enters a hostile area for the primary purpose of reconnaissance). The Army doesn't usually use the terms tactical breacher and assaulter, but most SWAT teams use them or some variant. VBSS teams are somewhat different, and although I don't have a VBSS team on my version of the Joe team, it helps to think about how these teams are structured to give a sense of the overlap in their duties (and especially since I have Topside's training being VBSS-based). A typical VBSS team would consist of a team leader, two sweep teams (consisting of two to three "sweepers" each, with each sweep team consisting, functionally, of at least one sweeper acting as a point man and one sweeper acting as a defenseman), and one security team (who are in charge of keeping the boarded vessel's crew on one end of the ship while the sweep teams do their thing). VBSS teams will also occasionally have marksmen, although given the limited space in which VBSS teams operate, their snipers/observers often maintain watch off-vessel, either in a helicopter or in the watercraft that carried the VBSS team. Quote:
See what's the difference of a Combat Controller who would be working with Delta Force or Green Berets and these 24thSpecial Tactics CCT commandos? Same training just now there is a whole platoon of them? or Company? I feel like an Airport seizure requires at least a company of men 75-150. Maybe more.
Quote:
Quote:
I'm guessing not. But perhaps they interchange these units depending on location and size of the mission. I wonder where JTACs and Combat Controllers fall in line with the USSOCOM structure. If the 24th Special Tactics is in direct command of the USSOCOM commander as are Delta and DEVGRU do those particular units just use those guys. It seem like you only get a few Combat controllers on loan to you, not a whole unit.
Last edited by zuludelta; 06-17-2009 at 12:27 PM.. Reason: edited for spelling |
06-17-2009, 12:19 PM | #6936 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Well, the way I used them is not to use them in their original roles at all (and in the case of Backblast, I just ignored him completely). Backblast is such a specific ADA guy that it's hard to see how he would fit in with a primarily light infantry unit like the Joe team.
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06-17-2009, 12:43 PM | #6937 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
Well, the way I used them is not to use them in their original roles at all (and in the case of Backblast, I just ignored him completely). Backblast is such a specific ADA guy that it's hard to see how he would fit in with a primarily light infantry unit like the Joe team.
I think I'll end up putting 'em in the artillery unit and just having them man the artillery. What would a typical artillery team look like? Say for a Whirlwind and a Howitzer? Is a tow vehicle and driver attached to each piece of equipment and does the driver double as another role?
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Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ Last edited by Troynos; 06-17-2009 at 12:45 PM.. |
06-17-2009, 12:44 PM | #6938 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
SRTs and other related rapid response security and policing groups (like the Navy's VBSS teams) are organized differently depending on the service. Standard Army and USMC practice is to have at minimum, a seven man SRT, divided into a five man entry team and a two man marksman/observer team. The entry team is composed of the team leader, the point man, and 3 defensemen. The assistant team leader usually takes position as the third defenseman/rear security. The defensemen are the basic unit of the SRT (sort of like how the rifleman is the basic unit of the infantry squad), they are the primary breaching and assault assets and they cover the point man during maneuvers. Ideally, all the members of the entry team are cross-trained in the different roles.
I mixed it up a little with the Joe's SRT by being more specific with the first two defenseman positions, listing Barbecue as the Tactical Breaching Specialist (the defenseman primarily in charge of explosive and non-explosive breaching duties) and Topside as an Assaulter (the defenseman primarily tasked with covering the point man during maneuvers and the first to enter a known hostile area for the purposes of engagement... as opposed to the point man, who enters a hostile area for the primary purpose of reconnaissance). The Army doesn't usually use the terms tactical breacher and assaulter, but most SWAT teams use them or some variant. VBSS teams are somewhat different, and although I don't have a VBSS team on my version of the Joe team, it helps to think about how these teams are structured to give a sense of the overlap in their duties (and especially since I have Topside's training being VBSS-based). A typical VBSS team would consist of a team leader, two sweep teams (consisting of two to three "sweepers" each, with each sweep team consisting, functionally, of at least one sweeper acting as a point man and one sweeper acting as a defenseman), and one security team (who are in charge of keeping the boarded vessel's crew on one end of the ship while the sweep teams do their thing). VBSS teams will also occasionally have marksmen, although given the limited space in which VBSS teams operate, their snipers/observers often maintain watch off-vessel, either in a helicopter or in the watercraft that carried the VBSS team. I think I'm going to retask my SWAT unit into a SRT team.
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06-17-2009, 12:49 PM | #6939 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Was reading an article by retired Airborne Ranger John T. Reed today, and something he wrote reminded me of oliverbox's insightful and funny "the Army officer community is just like high school" post from a few weeks back.
Here's the excerpt from Reed's article (keep in mind that this guy led an 82nd Airbrone Division platoon in Vietnam, so he's not writing out of professional envy or anything like that): Quote:
One of my big complaints is the hype surrounding paratroopers. There appears to be a widespread notion that paratroopers are supermen because they have the courage to jump out of an airplane. Too many, if not most, paratroopers have encouraged, or at least accepted silently, this misconception.
This article is my refusal to accept it silently. Jumping out of a plane is relatively easy. Former President George H.W. Bush (Bush “senior”) did it on his 75th and 80th birthdays. I doubt he was the oldest ever. I would be surprised if it is not being done by teenage girls and grandmothers, too. At least one couple held their marriage ceremony during a free-fall. Others have had sex during free falls. A number of amusement parks and World’s Fairs have had parachute-jump rides. During our second week at Fort Benning Airborne School, we trained on high towers that had been created for the 1936 New York World’s Fair then moved to Benning after the Fair closed. My kids and I did a parachute ride at Knott’s Berry Farm. You can see a photo of Coney Island’s parachute Jump ride at Parachute Jump - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. At the National Speakers Association convention I attended one year, a heavy-set, 50ish woman showed a movie she had made about her taking parachute lessons culminating in her jumping into the Pacific Ocean off Los Angeles—the standard end of that school’s course... ... In my experience, airborne troops are extremely big on swaggering, strutting, posing, breast beating, and trash talking based on the fact that they have jumped out of a plane on a number of occasions. They not only wear their parachutist wings, but also their Corcoran Jump Boots, glider patch overseas caps or special colored berets, and various unit citation ribbons that were awarded to the unit for the gallantry of their long-ago predecessors. They spit out the word “leg” with contempt when talking to or about non-airborne soldiers—the same soldiers they desperately need to rescue them after they jump into a combat zone. “Leg” is short for “straight leg” which refers to the fact that airborne troops bend their legs at the knee in preparation for landing when they jump. Since non-Airborne troops do not land, they need not bend their legs. This behavior, which is also typically of Marines, Rangers, SEALs, and fighter pilots, but not green berets, submariners, aviation mechanics, or combat engineers, to list a few other highly trained and respected military specialists, is analogous to football running backs and quarterbacks treating offensive linemen with contempt. So-called “elite” units are members of the overall U.S. military team. At times, they must rely on the same people they never miss an opportunity to publicly hold in contempt, namely, troop transport pilots and crews and “leg” units that have to link up with the paratroopers during combat. Pro football running backs and quarterbacks routinely buy expensive dinners and gifts for, and throw lavish parties for, and verbally praise the offensive linemen who block for and protect them. No football coach in his right mind would allow his backs to put down his linemen. No back in his right mind would treat his blockers with disdain or contempt. All the best ones go out of their way to show appreciation for their teammates who play crucial, but less glamorous, positions. Yet the people at the top of the U.S. Army have permitted the relatively unskilled paratroopers—it’s only a three-week course—to treat their far more skilled military teammates with contempt for decades. The brass justifies this because the paratroopers derive espirit de corps from it. What happened to teamwork? What about common decency? What about the Golden Rule? Who do the paratroopers think they are kidding? They are among the least skilled active-duty military personnel in the entire Defense Department in terms of the amount of time it takes to learn how to jump out of a plane compared to the amount of time it takes, say, to learn to maintain or fly the same plane. How’s about the paratroopers grow up? How’s about they start respecting the other members of the U.S. military team? How’s about they start accurately depicting the ease of acquiring and practicing their parachuting skills? Last edited by zuludelta; 06-17-2009 at 12:53 PM.. |
06-17-2009, 12:52 PM | #6940 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Great article Zulu. That was pretty funny to read.
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