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06-05-2009, 09:41 AM | #6541 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
They're formally addressed as "Mr." in the Army, Navy, and Marines (so they'd address Flint as "Mr. Faireborn").
Informally, they're addressed as "Chief" in the Army and in the Marines. Additionally, USMC Warrant Officers serving as Weapons Officers in Marine Infantry units are also informally addressed as "Gunner" (not to be confused with "Gunny," the informal address for senior USMC sergeants). I don't know if you could get away with addressing a Navy Warrant Officer as "Chief," though (not with your ass unkicked, anyway ). That term is reserved for Chief Petty Officers, Senior Chief Petty Officers, and Master Chief Petty Officers (E-7s, E-8s, and E-9s, resepctively). The Navy's CPO community is very tight-knit and exclusive (my uncle says that the day he got inducted as a Chief Petty Officer was only behind the birth of his kids as the happiest day of his life), it's almost a separate rank structure distinct from other enlisted personnel in terms of tradition... they don't share dining or living quarters with other enlisted personnel, and they have a different formal uniform. Even superiors such as commissioned officers and nominal superiors like Warrant Officers have to address them as "Chief" when they're on duty. That's why I always wondered why they renamed the Torpedo character "Chief Torpedo" for a time. That's a mighty big error in terms of protocol and formal address convention. I can picture a real Navy Seal writing a hand written letter to Hasbro saying "This is a disgrace, get your selves in line. A Chief is only a Senior petty Officer." Of course I assume real Navy Seals don't have time for toys, but todays Navy SEALs had to have watched GIJoe growing up. I'm sure the GIJoe brand has turned many a young boy into a soldier of today. |
06-05-2009, 12:07 PM | #6542 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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I expect if Hasbro gets any letters from active SEaLs they all say "WE ARE NOT JUST DIVERS!!!"
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06-05-2009, 12:29 PM | #6543 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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06-05-2009, 12:30 PM | #6544 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
I thought it was Mr. And I had no idea about the Navy. With Chief Torpedo I expected it was because he was a Chief Warrant Officer, but it may explain why they changed him to Lt. Torpedo. That was sort of unexpected. Although his filecard does not reflect that He has become an 0-3 to me.
Torpedo would have to be quite old to be a W-4 (Chief Warrant Officer Four) like he was in his original filecard. Here's how the numbers break down: - A chief petty officer (or a promotable petty officer first class) must have at least 12 but not more than 24 years TIS (time-in-service) to be eligible for the navy's warrant officer program. The average TIS for competitive selection into the warrant officer program is 17 years (source: Report of the CWO Time-In-Grade Committee). - It would take a navy warrant officer, at minimum, 7 years to become a W-4. The navy doesn't have a W-1 rank, but the minimum TIG (time-in-grade) for promotion from W-2 to W-3 is 3 years (and it was only recently that it was reduced from 4 years). TIG for promotion from W-3 to W-4 is 4 years (source: Report of the CWO Time-In-Grade Committee). The way Torpedo has been depicted, in the comics, the cartoons, and the various card art where his face is visible, he doesn't look like he's old enough to have at least 19 years and what is most likely to be 25 years of service. That would probably make him the oldest or the second oldest GI Joe, rivaling only Hawk for total time in service (it would take a minimum of 22 years for an officer to make colonel). By contrast, here are the TIG and TIS requirements for selection into and promotion through the limited duty officer ranks: - A chief petty officer (or a promotable petty officer first class) must have at least 8 but not more than 16 years TIS (time-in-service) to be eligible for the navy's limited duty officer (LDO) program. LDO Program applicants who come from the enlisted ranks are assigned the rank of O-1 (ensign) with successful selection. - The TIG requirements for promotion from ensign (O-1) to lieutenant, junior grade (O-2) is 18 months. It's the same for promotion from lieutenant, junior grade (O-2) to lieutenant (O-3). It would take Torpedo, at minimum, just under 12 years in total TIS to make O-3 if he were a limited duty officer. I don't know what the actual average TIS is for competitive selection into the LDO program but if we assume that the ratio is similar to the Warrant Officer selection prgram, then it's probably something like 12 years. So, it's reasonable to assume that Torpedo would have become an LDO in the rank of O-3 in 16 years. That's still more TIS than for graduates of the US Naval Academy, Navy ROTC, or OCS (who can become O-3s in as short as 4 years) but there's nothing in his filecard that indicates that he's a "straight-up" commissioned officer (i.e., an Annapolis graduate). Besides, I lke the idea that he's come "up from the depths" (the navy CWO and LDO motto), so to speak, starting out as an enlisted man but eventually working his way into an officer's role. |
06-05-2009, 12:32 PM | #6545 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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SO Torpedo would probably be another one that had served in Viet Nam.
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06-05-2009, 12:39 PM | #6546 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Hey guys, check this out: a free online graphic novel BY THE ARMY based on the new Army video game coming out:
Newsarama.com : "America's Army" Graphic Novel Online for Free AMERICA'S ARMY: SPECIAL FORCES - ABOUT - AMERICA'S ARMY
__________________
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06-05-2009, 12:44 PM | #6547 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Definitely. He'd have to have enlisted in 1964 at the latest for him to be a W-4 by 1983 (when Torpedo was originally released as a toy).
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06-05-2009, 01:09 PM | #6548 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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All this talk made me think of how old the other "senior" Joes are.
- Wild Bill (a W-3) would probably have anywhere between 10 to 16 years time in service at minimum (5 to 8 years of enlisted service + 5 to 8 years of service as a warrant officer). - Flint would probably have almost just as much accumulated time-in-servce as Wild Bill, despite being a full rank lower. Off the top of my head, I think an enlisted SF operator would need, on average, about 10 to 12 years enlisted TIS (with at least 3 years in a Special Forces "A" Team) to get into the SF Warrant Officer ranks. Throw in the time needed for promotion from W-1 to W-2 and you're looking at something like 14 years. - There's no way that Repeater could have 20 years of service and still be an E-6 (which is what it says on his original filecard). The Army has a strict "up or out" policy for enlisted soldiers, so if a soldier gets passed over for promotion twice he or she must retire. Last edited by zuludelta; 06-05-2009 at 01:11 PM.. |
06-05-2009, 01:11 PM | #6549 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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Quote:
Hey guys, check this out: a free online graphic novel BY THE ARMY based on the new Army video game coming out:
Newsarama.com : "America's Army" Graphic Novel Online for Free AMERICA'S ARMY: SPECIAL FORCES - ABOUT - AMERICA'S ARMY Although I think I like Borovia and Sierra Gordo better. |
06-05-2009, 01:11 PM | #6550 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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What about Ambush at E-3? How did he get on the Joe team being an E-3?
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