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05-31-2009, 11:49 AM | #6221 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
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Quote:
There's standard interservice protocol, although the details of which are unknown to me. JSOC and USSOCOM also have their own system for smooting out the diffrences and inconsistencies between each service, but in truth, most "joint service" activities have the Army, Air Force, Marines, and Navy elements separate from each other in charge of different aspects of an operation. You're certainly not going to see, say, a Special Forces senior sergeant leading a rifle squad composed of SEALs and Recon Marines. Most "joint" operations are that in planning, but actual execution still relies on separate service elements.
USSOCOM itslef is simply an umbrella organization for NAVSOC, MARSOC, AFSOC, USASOC. In my "Joe-Verse" the true joint service nature of GI Joe is what makes it distinct from other USSOCOM units like SFOD-D (which is Army), the SEAL Teams (Navy) or the MSOBs (Marines). Yeah, the Joes are a true joint service unit, which can lead to all sorts of conflicts. The branches are kept seperate for a reason even on joint operatons (USAF does this part, Marines do this part and the Army does this part, etc..). I wonder how much the interservice protocol covers? I'm sure it covers how "when an Army CSM passes by a USAF LT Pilot in the hallway" kind of stuff, but would it be enough to cover the Joe team who would have an Army CSM leading Force Recon Marines and SEaLs. Wouldn't Torpedo outrank Duke and then negate Duke's function as being the top NCO and running things in the field?
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05-31-2009, 12:16 PM | #6222 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Warrant Officers are in that no-man's land between senior NCOs and traditional commissioned officers (lieutenants and such). They nominally outrank senior NCOs, but they are only considered as leaders and officers in technical matters, and not in the "command" sense. An E-9 would have more "unofficial" clout with regards to administrative concerns and actually running a unit than say, a W-2. Complicating matters further, at least in the Navy and the Marines, are the existence of limited-duty officers (LDOs). LDOs are like Warrant Officers in the Navy and the USMC, in that they don't have to have college degrees (although a college degree is recommended) to get their commission and that they are drawn from the senior NCO ranks. Exceptionally talented and skilled NCOs who aren't interested in staying enlisted or going Warrant Officer can apply for the LDO program. LDOs have all the same rank insignia, privileges, and responsibilites of line officers (those who graduated from the USNA or OCS) but there's a somewhat arbitrary limit to how high they can go (O-6 is the maximum, I think, although I read about an exceptional LDO getting promoted to rear admiral a few years back) and their choice of officer career field is limited to the ones related to their enlisted job (a former enlisted Navy SEAL or SWCC, for example, pretty much can only become a NavSpecWar LDO). As you can imagine, this can lead to some pretty awkward situations. Say you've got an E-6(P) successfully graduating from the LDO program. He's now an Ensign (2nd Lieutenant in the Marines), or even a Lieutenant Junior Grade (1st Lieutenant in the Marines). He now vastly outranks the senior NCOs he used to serve under. I'm sure most sailors and marines are professional enough about it, but try to imagine a Senior Chief Petty Officer, with maybe 20 years time in service, taking orders from a guy who, just a year before, was an E-6(P) with maybe just an associate's degree and just 10 or 11 years time-in-service. Last edited by zuludelta; 05-31-2009 at 12:31 PM.. |
05-31-2009, 12:29 PM | #6223 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Thanks for the articles and information, Zuludelta. What sites do you use as sources for military info btw? I like to peruse globalsecurity.org because they have the FMs and much more but there's a lot of stuff I can't find.
I've currently been looking for an up-to-date list of a Ranger's combat loads. In other words, what's the standard equipment (clips, grenades, rations, etc) he carries into combat and how many pounds. There is mention of this in a Field Manual somewhere. I think it's mentioned in a chapter on the soldier's load or marching but it's not that detailed and I'm not sure if it applies to regular infantry or Rangers. |
05-31-2009, 12:32 PM | #6224 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Also, would you say then that even the most exceptional officer could not theoretically attend all of the schooling/training he needs while also earning experience to make colonel in 22 years?
And are there still exceptions to the rule? In other words, it's obvious that in WWII when senior officers were killed and the Army needed replacements, junior officers got promoted quickly. And I forget who it was, but there was an instance where some officer made General in record time, making him the youngest General ever. I'll have to look it up. I guess I'm kind of seeking a rationale to make Hawk a younger Colonel. |
05-31-2009, 12:43 PM | #6225 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
And of course, there's a lot of recent unclassified material out there, too, you just need to know your google-fu and how to make your browser do certain tricks. Nothing illegal, mind you, but it's stuff that's probably frowned upon by government site administrators. The stuff informing my opinions and perspectives about military policy generally just come from my own experiences and articles/essays written by former servicemen whose opinions on such matters I respect. I also have a "person in the know" that I occasionally talk to and will occasionally drop bits of joint operations knowledge the way a goat will absent-mindedly drop pellet-sized turds, but if I told you anything more about that, I'd have to kill you Last edited by zuludelta; 05-31-2009 at 01:03 PM.. |
05-31-2009, 12:46 PM | #6226 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
I have Low-Light on retainer if you ever need him.
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05-31-2009, 12:48 PM | #6227 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
Quote:
And are there still exceptions to the rule? In other words, it's obvious that in WWII when senior officers were killed and the Army needed replacements, junior officers got promoted quickly. And I forget who it was, but there was an instance where some officer made General in record time, making him the youngest General ever. I'll have to look it up.
I guess I'm kind of seeking a rationale to make Hawk a younger Colonel. |
05-31-2009, 12:50 PM | #6228 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Thanks, but Backstop has my, uh, back
|
05-31-2009, 01:00 PM | #6229 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Really? I'd double-check to make sure he's still.. uhm.. alive... Now then, how much for Low-Lights services?
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05-31-2009, 01:01 PM | #6230 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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So Zulu, are you going to do up a "Joint Services Protocol" for your Joe update?
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