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05-31-2009, 12:11 AM | #6201 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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I can't quote everything that I'd like to address above, so I'll just have to do the best I can...
First Air Force OSI sounds interesting... although, my understanding is that it is pretty much the same thing as Army CID. The Air Force really doesn't do much "field work" when it comes to Intel... mainly because it involves the Field and they're the Air Force. Though it could be an interesting MOS for the Joe Team. Combat Artist is actually are really important part of Recon work. The SAS, Delta, SF and Force Recon Marines use them. LRSC/LRRP Teams are trained in it. They're basically trained to scout out an area, and then to be able to draw scale maps and sketches from memory to be used by their commander in planning. It's a really important job. For a forward Recon unit like Sky Patrol, it's a really important and useful job. I know we've had this discussion, but I've always like Grid-Iron. And frankly, there's no way that a Top 10 West Point Grad and Army Football star would be associated with some POG branch like AG. No way. There are some good AG officers out there, and it's an important support role in the Army - but Grid-Iron would not have even thought of doing anything but Infantry. About his Hand-to-Hand expertise... Although his time in football would not have given him any particular expertise in hand-to-hand combat, we can safely assume that he's a great athlete. West Point requires its' cadets to study some form of hand-to-hand combat in their first semester, and they offer advanced training as electives in every semester thereafter... if a Cadet applies himself or herself to his study, the Cadet could become very proficient. Given Grid-Iron's athleticism, and his training as an Infantry Officer (Airborne, Air Assault, Ranger, etc.) he would have had ample opportunity to further his training with the Army's combatives training. I know most everyone hates his costume. I know. I know his representation in the cartoon was rediculous. I know. But if you look at his credentials... it's the possible future leadership of G.I. Joe. He's smart (and top 10 at West Point is SMART), well trained, and athletic. He's a combat officer with limitless potential. He's probably a lot like General Ray when he would have been a young officer... a "Stormin' Norman" type of Infantry Officer. There are a number of Great Books on West Point. "Duty First" and "Absolutely American" are two of the best in recent years. I highly recommend them. What the Army puts those Cadets through is amazing. And anyone who rises to the top of the heap in that environment has proven their excellence. West Point is probably the most difficult college experience in America. It's academics are on par with Harvard or any Ivy League School. You add in the Stress, the lack of sleep, the physical fitness requirements, the military training, and everything else... Very few people could do it. Grid-Iron excelled there. He's the real deal. He's a warrior. And with his credentials from West Point he could have easily done an MBA or MPA from Harvard or Princeton or Duke or Standford or PENN or anywhere he wanted. Just my opinion, but I think we need to take serious stock of the man's qualifications.
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
05-31-2009, 12:12 AM | #6202 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Also, the Action Force names are fantastic. I might steal some of them for my custom Marines.
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
05-31-2009, 01:20 AM | #6203 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
I know we've had this discussion, but I've always like Grid-Iron. And frankly, there's no way that a Top 10 West Point Grad and Army Football star would be associated with some POG branch like AG. No way. There are some good AG officers out there, and it's an important support role in the Army - but Grid-Iron would not have even thought of doing anything but Infantry.
From reading the rest of your comments, I get the sense (and feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken) that it is your assessment that Adjutant/Personnel Management duties would be "below" somebody of Grid-Iron's stature as a top West Point graduate, but I guess I'll just disagree with you on that point. Granted, your experience with officer matters is above and beyond what I have (which is basically nil), and maybe that's why I feel like going into the AG Corps isn't a step-down from the infantry. I've always felt that the organizational sciences are an often overlooked but nonetheless significant pillar of just about any organization (corporate, military, or political). I don't know, I guess just reading all the course descriptions for AG officer qualification and AG advanced education (particalarly those that concern personnel managment in a joint service environment) got me thinking that it's not just shuffling papers and coffee breaks and every other negative thing we've all come to ascribe to HR departments. The top guys in AG learn stuff like complexity theory implications on organization workflows, scientific management, risk and stress modelling, decision modelling, etc. I actually thought I was boosting Grid-Iron's stock (relative to what he was in his "classic" rendition, which was basically the infantry officer nobody wanted to get stuck with) by making him an AG captain in a joint service organization that has what I imagine would be some pretty unique and challenging management needs. Last edited by zuludelta; 05-31-2009 at 02:22 AM.. |
05-31-2009, 01:59 AM | #6204 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Oh that. I remember us talking about Joes getting SAS cross-training in this thread a couple of months back. I think the consensus was that the likelihood of an enlisted man (particularly a non-senior enlisted man) getting sent across the pond to train with the SAS wasn't very good. Particularly if it's going to be in something like tactical/anti-terrorism evasive driving, when an equivalent course could just as easily be accessed in the US, via the Department of Homeland Security/Federal Law Enforcement Trainng Center tactical driving and the US Army Anti-terrorism Evasive driving courses (which are what I subsitituted for the "SAS driver training" mentioned in his original filecard).
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05-31-2009, 02:01 AM | #6205 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
|
Quote:
I'm mostly indifferent to Grid-Iron (I refuse to use rank as part of anyone's codename), which is a huge improvement in my eyes. You took one of my most hated characters and turned him into a background type of character that doesn't make me want to break things. He doesn't look much like the Grid Iron of old, and I thank you for that. It's nice that he doesn't look like anyone else, thereby keeping his..."uniqueness".
Kudos. |
05-31-2009, 03:15 AM | #6206 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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So I'm curious about the minimal service time an officer needs to get promoted to each rank. I know that there are a number of factors that come into play when it comes time to promotion (points, time in service, politics, demand, etc), but theoretically what is the minimum time that an exceptional officer like Hawk would have to spend in each rank. For instance, if he was an O1 at 21.5 years old, he might make O2 at 23, then O3 at 25 and O4 at 31, O5 at 37 and O6 at 43 and O7 at 47. In other words how fast could an exceptional officer move up in rank?
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05-31-2009, 03:52 AM | #6207 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
Oh that. I remember us talking about Joes getting SAS cross-training in this thread a couple of months back. I think the consensus was that the likelihood of an enlisted man (particularly a non-senior enlisted man) getting sent across the pond to train with the SAS wasn't very good. Particularly if it's going to be in something like tactical/anti-terrorism evasive driving, when an equivalent course could just as easily be accessed in the US, via the Department of Homeland Security/Federal Law Enforcement Trainng Center tactical driving and the US Army Anti-terrorism Evasive driving courses (which are what I subsitituted for the "SAS driver training" mentioned in his original filecard).
I want to back you up on your theory for Grid-Iron as an S1 Personnel guy. I of course no nothing about the type of guys that go to West Point. Or what they expect when coming out, so for that reason alone I can see his need to be Infantry all the Way as Oliver has stated. But there is a General Management Degree from West Point. Yet personnel management systems and Administration seem like great training for higher levels of government outside of the military. So If West Point is like the Ivy Leagues then a guy who focused on personnel management could go straight to the top in most government agencies. He also fills a role you need on your teams so use him. These AG guys are also responsible for Morale in a way so I can see him taking care of that. More like life-training for the Joes instead of Hand to Hand Combat instructor. He could also just not been good enough to be a Direct element guy but wanted in with the Joes so bad he took the one position everyone overlooked which he could get. He was already an Infantry Officer but switch to AG to join the Joes. He could be getting groomed to take an Leadership role of another Unit. I know you don't have much love for Grid-Iron so it makes no difference where you put him to me. This is my S1: YOJOE.COM | Filecard Gallery - Colonel Courage I wonder why the made Courage to begin with? I notice you don't have a S5 section (Planning) Grid-Iron could maybe serve as Claymore's assistant just to put him on a cooler team. |
05-31-2009, 10:00 AM | #6208 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
|
Quote:
0-2 - minimum accumulated time in service requirement for promotion to O-2: 18 months - minimum time served in grade before being eligible for promotion to next grade: 18 months 0-3 - minimum accumulated time in service requirement for promotion to O-3: 4 years - minimum time in grade before being eligible for promotion to next grade: 2 years 0-4: - minimum accumulated time in service requirement for promotion to O-4: 10 years - minimum time in grade before being eligible for promotion to next grade: 3 years 0-5 - minimum accumulated time in service requirement for promotion to O-5: 16 years - minimum time in grade before being eligible for promotion to next grade: 3 years 0-6 - minimum accumulated time in service requirement for promotion to O-6: 22 years - minimum time in grade before being eligible for promotion to next grade: 3 years So a guy like Hawk, at the barest minimum, needs 22 years to become a colonel. I don't know how many officers actually make it to colonel in 22 years, though. It's conceivable that he made colonel before turning 50 (assuming he graduated from West Point at 22 years old) but then where would he squeeze in the time to take all the specialized education and get all the leadership experience that one would assume would be necessary for him to earn command over the GI Joe team? Last edited by zuludelta; 05-31-2009 at 10:02 AM.. |
05-31-2009, 10:23 AM | #6209 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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And since the question is bound to come up, here are the minimum time-in-grade (TIG) and time-in-service (TIS) requirements for promotion in the Army's enlisted ranks:
E-2 - minimum TIG: 6 months as an E-1 - minimum TIS: 6 months E-3 - minimum TIG: 4 months as an E-2 - minimum TIS: 1 year E-4 - minimum TIG: 6 months as an E-3 - minimum TIS: 2 years E-5 - minimum TIG:8 months as an E-4 (4 months for "exceptional performers) - minimum TIS: 3 years (1.5 years for "exceptional performers") E-6 - minimum TIG: 10 months as an E-5 (5 months for "exceptional performers") - minimum TIS: 7 years (4 years for "exceptional performers") E-7 - minimum TIG: none specified - minimum TIS: 6 years E-8 - minimum TIG: none specified - minimum TIS: 8 years E-9 - minimum TIG: none specified - minimum TIS: 9 years Again, keep in mind that these are the bare minimum requirements. The actual average time-in-service most soldiers accumulate before getting promoted to E-6 is anywhere between 8 to 10 years. Finding a sergeant major (E-9) with just 9 years of service in the military is extremely rare. Consideration for promotion in the senior NCO ranks (E-7 to E-9) is weighted heavily on experience. |
05-31-2009, 10:34 AM | #6210 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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It's been stressed over and over again in this thread about how important Ranger School is for an Army officer's career advancement, the assumption being that graduation from Ranger School re-affirms an officer's ability to lead . Here's a slightly more cynical take on the process by retired officer John T. Reed (West Point class of 1968; Ranger School Class 3-68; served as a platoon leader with the 82d Airborne in the Vietnam War), excerpted from his humourous but nonetheless insightful essay entitled "The 'U.S. military’s marathon, 30-year, single-elimination, suck-up tournament' OR 'How America selects generals'":
Quote:
Not having a Ranger tab on your left shoulder as an Army officer is sort of like the Scarlet Letter. It is a badge of shame, or the lack of the tab is a “badge” of shame. I was awarded the tab, but chose not to wear it in a sort of protest against the whole silly idea of decorating yourself with stuff like that. It reminded me of the cub scouts. When one of my West Point classmates and Ranger School Class 3-68 fellow graduates learned of my not wearing it, he adopted the same policy. It occasionally triggered some fun like a Ranger exaggerating how tough the school was (hard to do) or someone who knew you were a West Point graduate putting you down for flunking Ranger School on the assumption that anyone who passed would certainly wear the tab—on his pajamas and everything else.
Am I really saying that a young man who after spending four years busting his ass to graduate from West Point will have his career ended as far as making multi-star general is concerned, within a few months of graduating from West Point, solely because he randomly flunked some weird, two-month, roam-around-the-woods course? That’s exactly what I’m saying. But that’s not fair, you protest. It’s stupid. Ah, yes. But who said life is fair? And even if any sane person did say that, did they also say that the U.S. Army is fair? I doubt it. And have you not heard the acronym SNAFU? It stands for “Situation Normal All Fouled Up” and it has long been used to accurately describe the U.S. military. Read the title of this article again. It’s a single-elimination tournament. If you lose at any time in the tournament, you’re finished. One strike and you’re out. It’s Old Testament because of the numbers. Many are lieutenants but few are chosen to be generals. You typically go to more schools before your first assignment. I went to five. But you get the idea. Most of the other schools are more objective in their grading than Ranger School. Last edited by zuludelta; 05-31-2009 at 10:54 AM.. |
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