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05-28-2009, 09:39 PM | #6041 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stone Mountain, GA
Posts: 658
|
Quote:
EDIT: Quote:
I'll be doing some changes to Flash as well after talking to Master Thespian at some length about the character (which is why I've temporarily taken down his filecard from the Filecard Project album along with the Flash image from my Custom Figures & Art Hisstank Pictures album), and I've modified and updated Tunnel Rat's filecard and moved him to a combat role (instead of a first responder role with the rest of the EOD/Ordnance clearance guys).
Last edited by Master Thespian; 05-28-2009 at 09:44 PM.. |
05-28-2009, 10:15 PM | #6042 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
- There's a difference between "Reconnaissance Man," "Force Recon," and "MAGTF Recon"... it's akin to the difference between being "Ranger-qualified" and being a "Ranger" in the army. Reconnaissance Marines are riflemen who've graduated from the Basic Reconnaissance Course, the same way that Ranger-qualified infantrymen in the Army are graduates of the Ranger School but aren't necessarily "Rangers" in that they don't maintain their proficency and serve with the 75th Ranger Regiment. Force Reconnaissance, however, entails a much more comprehensive training regimen than just graduation from the Basic Reconnaissance Course. Force Recon Marines are not only graduates of the BRC, but a good number of them are also fully jump-qualified and many are graduates of the Marine Combat Diver Course (equivalent to the Army's Special Forces Underwater Combat Diver Course). Many also go on to cross-train in the Army's Ranger School and the Army's Reconnaissance & Surveillance Leaders Course. They also have their own independent units called Force Reconnaissance Companies. MAGTF Recon, on the other hand, refers to those Reconnaissance Men assigned to a specific MAGTF unit. In many books and comics, writers often seem to think that the three are equivalent. As far as I know though, the Force Reconnaissance companies have been deactivated and the members have been re-assigned to the new MARSOC battalions that are under USSOCOM or distributed to the various MAGTF Recon units. I think MARSOC is still undergoing teething problems though... I remember reading some articles a few months back about USSOCOM commanders not being exactly sure what to do with their MSOBs (Marine Special Operations Battalions... also, Mean Sons-of-Bitches ) that doesn't simply make them a redundant equivalent to the SEAL Teams. In terms of how I've re-imagined GI Joe, I've got Gung-Ho as a Force Recon/MSOB Marine, while Leatherneck is a Marine Infantry unit leader who graduated from the Basic Recon Course, jsut to distinguish the two instead of making them virtual clones of each other. Last edited by zuludelta; 05-28-2009 at 10:36 PM.. |
05-28-2009, 10:21 PM | #6043 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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I'm confused... lol
Why can't it be simple? Ranger qualified (or Recon Marine qualified) means you're a Ranger (or Force Recon). Being qualified but not being part is confusing. Damn US military and it's twisted logic.
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05-28-2009, 10:33 PM | #6044 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
I imagine it's the same reason for all the different Marine Reconnaissance-qualified personnel labels. |
05-28-2009, 11:02 PM | #6045 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Quote:
I guess it has to do with there being more Ranger School graduates than there are TOE-allocated slots in the 75th Ranger Regiment. The personnel guys needed to come up with a way to account for these Ranger School graduates who weren't in the Ranger Regiment. Hence, the distinction between "Ranger qualifed" (a graduate of Ranger School not necessarily assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment) and "Ranger" (a graduate of Ranger School assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment), although strictly speaking, a graduate of Ranger School has probably earned the right to be called a Ranger, regardless of whether or not he's actually assigned to the 75th. Conversely, there are also non-Ranger qualifed personnel assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment (combat support and combat service support personnel, combat personnel waiting for a slot to oepn up in Ranger School, etc.).
I imagine it's the same reason for all the different Marine Reconnaissance-qualified personnel labels. |
05-28-2009, 11:05 PM | #6046 |
G.I.Joe medic
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Litchfield, ME
Posts: 3,169
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I agree 100%. I loved his lines, especially, "How do you know what kind of a f---ing day it's gonna be?" Hawk in Gibson's role, and Duke in Eliot's. Moore is the embodiement of what we picture Hawk as being-honorable, fair, leading from the front, concerned about his men, a military genius. Eliot's character is how we'd like Duke to be-tough as nails, barking orders, uncompromising. When I first saw the movie, I felt that these were how I pictured real life Hawk and Duke to be like.
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05-29-2009, 03:41 AM | #6047 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
Zuludelta, this has been a longstanding question of mine concerning Delta teams. How are they structured? In Bowden's book Black Hawk Down, Delta worked in four-man teams and each team leader was an E-7, but other men on the teams, such as two medics, were E-7s as well. But Bowden doesn't really break down the role of each team member. In other words, an SF team typically has teams of six men: Medical Sgt, Comm Sgt, Engineer Sgt, Weapons Sgt, Opearations Sgt and the Detachment Commander or Warrant Officer. Are Delta teams structured similarly?
Pure speculation on my part: - I would think that SFOD-D would follow platoon/squad/fireteam organizational structure for convenience' sake, particularly if their mission profile involves direct action. Why mess with a system that everybody's already trained in and comfortable with? - Special Forces A-detachments (SFOD-A) are structured differently because the platoon/squad/fireteam hierarchy isn't particularly suited for their primary mission profile, which is FID/counterinsurgency/unconventional warfare. Their organization isn't optimized for fire & movement, but for redundancy in advisory capability (that's why they are organized in 12 man detachments comprised of two senior NCOs in each enlisted SF specialization field and a warrant officer and a detachment commander). If an SF A-detachment has to reorganize itself into fireteams, that probably means somebody screwed up and they now have to resort to direct kinetic engagement with the enemy or as it's reportedly happened in Iraq a couple of times, some commanding officer, in his/her infinite wisdom, decided to use an SF A-detachment for basic infantry purposes, much to the consternation and confusion of the SF operators. - The way I understand it, SFOD-D has more in common, functionally, with direct action CT units like the SEALs or certain SAS elements rather than SFOD-A, despite having its origins rooted in the Special Forces Groups. With that in mind, I think they would be operationally structured in a similar manner, in "light" platoons of anywhere between 16 to 20 men, which can be divided into multiple fire & movement units (either 4 man fireteams or less commonly, two-man "fire & maneuver" teams) rather than the 12 man structure used by SFOD-A. Last edited by zuludelta; 05-29-2009 at 03:54 AM.. |
05-29-2009, 06:32 AM | #6048 |
G.I.Joe medic
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Litchfield, ME
Posts: 3,169
|
From what I've read in books like "Insde Delta Force", "Kill Bin Laden", and "Black Hawk Down" it appears that Delta's organizational structure in the field is more flexible than other units. It's hard to tell, since so much about SFOD-D is classified. Still, seems like they deploy based on how many shooters they think they'll need to get the job done, not how many medics, engineers, etc. they have.
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05-29-2009, 08:25 AM | #6049 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
From what I've read in books like "Insde Delta Force", "Kill Bin Laden", and "Black Hawk Down" it appears that Delta's organizational structure in the field is more flexible than other units. It's hard to tell, since so much about SFOD-D is classified. Still, seems like they deploy based on how many shooters they think they'll need to get the job done, not how many medics, engineers, etc. they have.
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05-29-2009, 08:29 AM | #6050 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
I agree 100%. I loved his lines, especially, "How do you know what kind of a f---ing day it's gonna be?" Hawk in Gibson's role, and Duke in Eliot's. Moore is the embodiement of what we picture Hawk as being-honorable, fair, leading from the front, concerned about his men, a military genius. Eliot's character is how we'd like Duke to be-tough as nails, barking orders, uncompromising. When I first saw the movie, I felt that these were how I pictured real life Hawk and Duke to be like.
"Now this is a good day!"
__________________
Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
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