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04-11-2009, 01:17 PM | #4631 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
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Quote:
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Yeah, it was a bit of license on my part. I was sort of bored with the idea of making him another Combat Engineer/EOD type as per his original secondary MOS, so I just used another MOS that uses explosives. I think it sets him apart from, say, Short-Fuze or any of the other Joes who have dual backgrounds in "demolitions" and infantry. And quarrying specialists are found under Engineer branch (I forget what the alphanumeric code is for the MOS). |
04-11-2009, 01:32 PM | #4632 |
EQ-Viper
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Special Forces (Airborne) Company - 8 officers, 7 warrant officers, and 67 enlisted soldiers Each company is then divided into a company HQ and six (6) SFOD "A" Detachments (colloquially known as "A-Teams"). Each A-Team is composed of the following personnel: - one Captain (Commander), one Warrant Officer (Detachment Technician), one Master Sergeant (Operations Sergeant), one Sergeant First Class (Assistant Operations Sergeant), two Weapons Sergeants (usually an E-7 and an E-6 or E-5), two Engineer Sergeants (usually an E-7 and an E-6 or E-5), two Medical Sergeants (usually an E-7 and an E-6 or E-5), and two Communications Sergeants (usually an E-7 and an E-6 or E-5). A-Teams aren't organized in the typical infantry squad because they aren't expected to do conventional light infantry duties or even much direct action work (that's what Force Recon, Rangers, and SEALs are for), although the individual personnel are more than qualified to do so. But the main use of Special Forces personnel is to engage in unconventional warfare which involves training foreign allies to fight against common enemies (hence the stringent requirement to know at least one foreign language from a list of potential enemy language groups), non-kinetic and kinetic deceptive warfare, and supporting direct engagement via non-traditional military tactics. |
04-11-2009, 08:49 PM | #4633 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
Here are the Special Forces Group company manpower figures (accurate as of 1999/2000... sorry, I don't have access to more current numbers):
Special Forces (Airborne) Company - 8 officers, 7 warrant officers, and 67 enlisted soldiers Each company is then divided into a company HQ and six (6) SFOD "A" Detachments (colloquially known as "A-Teams"). Each A-Team is composed of the following personnel: - one Captain (Commander), one Warrant Officer (Detachment Technician), one Master Sergeant (Operations Sergeant), one Sergeant First Class (Assistant Operations Sergeant), two Weapons Sergeants (usually an E-7 and an E-6 or E-5), two Engineer Sergeants (usually an E-7 and an E-6 or E-5), two Medical Sergeants (usually an E-7 and an E-6 or E-5), and two Communications Sergeants (usually an E-7 and an E-6 or E-5). A-Teams aren't organized in the typical infantry squad because they aren't expected to do conventional light infantry duties or even much direct action work (that's what Force Recon, Rangers, and SEALs are for), although the individual personnel are more than qualified to do so. But the main use of Special Forces personnel is to engage in unconventional warfare which involves training foreign allies to fight against common enemies (hence the stringent requirement to know at least one foreign language from a list of potential enemy language groups), non-kinetic and kinetic deceptive warfare, and supporting direct engagement via non-traditional military tactics. Thanks Zulu! So what rank is the commander of a Special Forces Company if there are 6 captains? Just a Major? Are there any 0-2 Falcons types? I've started to postulate that some of the Joes join right before a big promotion. Like Flint from E-6 to CW-2 or Falcon to 0-3. I remember reading somewhere where once you completed Q courses you were given the rank of E-7, just for the sheer number of leadership and other courses one has to undertake in that 18 month to 2 year period. I know there is the 18X enlistment straight to Green Beret training, but who qualifies for that, besides a soldier switching branches? Most candidates are already Rangers and I thought you have to be E-5 to even begin Q-courses. I need to find more info besides Wikipedia. |
04-11-2009, 09:33 PM | #4634 |
EQ-Viper
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AFAIK, there are no lieutenants actively serving in the SF. To qualify as an SF officer, a candidate must have completed a Captain's Career Course or officer advanced training. The lowest rank I can imagine an officer qualifying for SF is 1st lieutenant-promotable (a 1st lieutenant who has completed a captain's career course but hasn't been bumped up yet), and even then, by the time the officer finishes SF qualification, he'll almost certainly be a captain. SF used to have lieutenants as recently as the late 1980s, I think, but they were replaced by SF warrant officers. The main reason being that most, if not all, lieutenants just don't have the experience and maturity necessary to be in a leadership position in an SF unit. Keep in mind that many lieutenants are fresh graduates from West Point or OCS, many likely to be in their early to mid-20s, with little real-world tactical experience. Warrant officers, on the other hand, being drawn from the enlisted ranks E-6 and above, would have at least around a decade of service already put in before even entering Warrant Officer Candidate School. They've got the kind of knowledge and wisdom you just can't pick up from a classroom or a simulated tactical exercise. Besides the physical qualifications, I'm pretty sure the basic requirements for entry into SF are that the candidate be male and be at least a promotable E-4 (must have attended PLDC -- Primary Leadership Development Course). AFAIK, the 18X option is a fairly recent program for new recruits who've expressed an interest in joining SF. They basically attend the same schooling as infantrymen. After graduating from infantry training, though, they can continue on with SFAS and the Q course if they're still interested in going SF. If they wash out, they become "recycled" as infantrymen. The few who make it through would have earned enough credits to become junior SF NCOs (promotable E-4s). Last edited by zuludelta; 04-11-2009 at 09:41 PM.. |
04-11-2009, 10:42 PM | #4635 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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So the deal with "Blue Light" group is this:
It took 24 months to get Delta up and running. Selection, training, etc... Beckwith wanted 24 months. There was also some competition over money for a unit like that and 5th group started it's own counter terrorist unit, which they called "Blue Light". Beckwith doesn't give many details, but he leaves us with the impression that "Blue Light" was disbanded... however, after it was supposed to have been "disbanded" none of the members of "Blue Light" came over to try out of Delta Selection. Eric Haney remarks on the same thing in his book. On the face of it, it doesn't sound like much, but why on earth wouldn't the guys from Blue Light try out for Delta? I mean, these would be the guys who would stand the best chance of success and had the most counter terrorist training. These guys would be the best candidates for recruiting - they had nearly 2 years of experience for a unit that was struggling to get on it's feet... so why wouldn't they try out? Maybe because they were never disbanded. Wikipedia claims that some claim "Blue Light" never disbanded and simply went underground - top secret stuff. I think it's somewhat naive to think that the only Secret Unit the Army has is "Delta Force" In a lot of ways, Delta is so "Famous" that they're not even really that secret anymore. The Army would need another Unit for really secretive stuff... Blue Light could very well still exist.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
04-11-2009, 10:48 PM | #4636 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Quote:
So the deal with "Blue Light" group is this:
It took 24 months to get Delta up and running. Selection, training, etc... Beckwith wanted 24 months. There was also some competition over money for a unit like that and 5th group started it's own counter terrorist unit, which they called "Blue Light". Beckwith doesn't give many details, but he leaves us with the impression that "Blue Light" was disbanded... however, after it was supposed to have been "disbanded" none of the members of "Blue Light" came over to try out of Delta Selection. Eric Haney remarks on the same thing in his book. On the face of it, it doesn't sound like much, but why on earth wouldn't the guys from Blue Light try out for Delta? I mean, these would be the guys who would stand the best chance of success and had the most counter terrorist training. These guys would be the best candidates for recruiting - they had nearly 2 years of experience for a unit that was struggling to get on it's feet... so why wouldn't they try out? Maybe because they were never disbanded. Wikipedia claims that some claim "Blue Light" never disbanded and simply went underground - top secret stuff. I think it's somewhat naive to think that the only Secret Unit the Army has is "Delta Force" In a lot of ways, Delta is so "Famous" that they're not even really that secret anymore. The Army would need another Unit for really secretive stuff... Blue Light could very well still exist. I just wish we could get more details on the Delta tactics. How do they operate as a team? Does each individual have some specialties that others don't? |
04-12-2009, 12:00 AM | #4637 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
I think it's technically possible for a captain to command a SFG company, but I think for all practical intents and purposes, the minimum rank would have to be major.
AFAIK, there are no lieutenants actively serving in the SF. To qualify as an SF officer, a candidate must have completed a Captain's Career Course or officer advanced training. The lowest rank I can imagine an officer qualifying for SF is 1st lieutenant-promotable (a 1st lieutenant who has completed a captain's career course but hasn't been bumped up yet), and even then, by the time the officer finishes SF qualification, he'll almost certainly be a captain. SF used to have lieutenants as recently as the late 1980s, I think, but they were replaced by SF warrant officers. The main reason being that most, if not all, lieutenants just don't have the experience and maturity necessary to be in a leadership position in an SF unit. Keep in mind that many lieutenants are fresh graduates from West Point or OCS, many likely to be in their early to mid-20s, with little real-world tactical experience. Warrant officers, on the other hand, being drawn from the enlisted ranks E-6 and above, would have at least around a decade of service already put in before even entering Warrant Officer Candidate School. They've got the kind of knowledge and wisdom you just can't pick up from a classroom or a simulated tactical exercise. Besides the physical qualifications, I'm pretty sure the basic requirements for entry into SF are that the candidate be male and be at least a promotable E-4 (must have attended PLDC -- Primary Leadership Development Course). AFAIK, the 18X option is a fairly recent program for new recruits who've expressed an interest in joining SF. They basically attend the same schooling as infantrymen. After graduating from infantry training, though, they can continue on with SFAS and the Q course if they're still interested in going SF. If they wash out, they become "recycled" as infantrymen. The few who make it through would have earned enough credits to become junior SF NCOs (promotable E-4s). |
04-12-2009, 10:33 AM | #4638 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
Flint should be in his Mid-30's. He may have been a Special Forces guy prior to Flight Warrant Officer School. Or was in the last phase of School when he joined the joes, before promotion to WO-2. I mean if you go to Flight School isn't your intent to become a pilot? Which means you Green Beret Days are over.
I prefer to think that he's a Special Forces Warrant Officer (MOS 180A), though, which means he took the Special Forces Operations & Intelligence Course as an enlisted man, a prerequisite for MOS 180A, prior to going to Warrant Officer Candidate School. After WOCS, I can see him then getting his flight training. So my idealized version of Flint has a WOMOS of Special Forces Warrant Officer and an AMOS (Additional MOS) of Rotary Wing Aviator. |
04-12-2009, 11:28 AM | #4639 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
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And that my friends is why Knowing is half the battle!
Thanks Zulu! So what rank is the commander of a Special Forces Company if there are 6 captains? Just a Major? Are there any 0-2 Falcons types? I've started to postulate that some of the Joes join right before a big promotion. Like Flint from E-6 to CW-2 or Falcon to 0-3. I remember reading somewhere where once you completed Q courses you were given the rank of E-7, just for the sheer number of leadership and other courses one has to undertake in that 18 month to 2 year period. I know there is the 18X enlistment straight to Green Beret training, but who qualifies for that, besides a soldier switching branches? Most candidates are already Rangers and I thought you have to be E-5 to even begin Q-courses. I need to find more info besides Wikipedia.
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Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery? http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...r1s-b-s-t.html |
04-12-2009, 01:47 PM | #4640 |
EQ-Viper
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I'm okay with Lifeline not wanting to commit violence himself. But I don't think the extremes he was shown, in the cartoon, translates well to being a combat medic. Soldiers need to commit violence and the medic needs to understand that. A pacifist in the military would need to understand that there is a degree of violence that is required and that the soldiers don't necessarily want to commit harm to others, but that there's just no way around it.
I think they'd need to see it in more black and white "us or them". They'd need to understand that the rescue helicopter does need to have armaments so that they can go in and rescue their fellow soldiers and that you need to do violence and harm to the enemy in order to protect your own. Personally, I do think that having a pacifist in the military would be a liability, just because adherence to his/her principles would surely interfere with his/her combat duties as a soldier (although why a pacifist would join the military in the first place is beyond me) and put other personnel's lives at potential risk. Sure, combat medics are designated non-combatants, but I don't think too many people in the heat of battle are going to be reviewing their Geneva Convention handbooks. In extremis, medics are more useful if they have the capacity and werewithal to use lethal force to defend themselves and their patients (emphasis on the word "defend"). But I'm neither "anti-violence" or "pro-violence." I subscribe to the notion that potentially lethal force shouldn't be used indiscriminately, and achieves the most positive strategic and tactical effect when rationally and ethically applied. I think Larry Hama's version of Lifeline leans towards that viewpoint as well, unlike the horribly caricatured version found in the cartoon. If I have any issues with the moral/ideological undertones of certain GI Joe characters, it would have to be with Salvo. The "Might Makes Right" slogan on his shirt, depending on how much one chooses to read into it, marks him as a war-mongering, Nietzschean neo-fascist who'd fit in better with Cobra (please don't flame me, Salvo fans). Last edited by zuludelta; 04-12-2009 at 01:50 PM.. |
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