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03-15-2009, 09:35 PM | #3881 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
Now that I think about it, a platoon leader in the Ranger regiment is more likely to be a captain than a lieutenant as well, although in terms of structure, a ranger platoon would be very similar to a standard light infantry platoon. I think structurally, an SF detachment (and I'm just assuming, a 1st SFOD unit) has more in common with a SEAL platoon than a regular light infantry platoon. Last edited by zuludelta; 03-15-2009 at 09:44 PM.. |
03-15-2009, 09:43 PM | #3882 |
I.O. SpecOps
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In a secret underground bunker.
Posts: 4,404
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Quote:
I think Police SWAT Teams have a different focus/mission than Military Special Ops CQB teams. The SWAT team is there to make arrests, and protect innocent people in the area. Obviously SWAT teams have to take lives from time to time, but at the end of the day, they're Police Officers.
Spec Ops CQB teams are designed to kill targets and sometimes rescue hostages. It's certainly similar, but the mission focus is just a little different, as are the rules of engagement. I tend to think of our Military CQB units as much more elite than any city's Police SWAT unit. Funding, training, equipment, weaponry, etc. All of it would be inferior to what the military could provide. So let's use Shockwave as an example. Let's say he is with the Detroit SWAT team, and he's an excellent SWAT officer. I figure he joins the Army to be an MP and train with an Army SWAT Team. Or Maybe, because G.I. Joe/Delta is so good at CQB, Shockwave tries out for the Joe "18x" program and makes it. I'm not syaing his previous experience isn't helpful. It certainly is. I just think that the training, weapons, equipment, and operational tempo of the Joe team would be a step up from the Detroit SWAT Team.
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Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery? http://www.hisstank.com/forum/g-i-jo...r1s-b-s-t.html |
03-15-2009, 09:57 PM | #3883 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
Perhaps it's changed in recent years, but IIRC, lieutenants commanding an SF detachment are about as rare as hen's teeth, even in a "normal" (non-Delta) SF unit. An officer has to be at least a 1st Lieutenant-promotable (i.e., have taken a Captain's Career Course/Officer Advanced Course) to qualify for entry into the Special Forces branch, and by the time he's fully branch-qualified, he'd be more often than not be a Captain anyway.
Now that I think about it, a platoon leader in the Ranger regiment is more likely to be a captain than a lieutenant as well, although in terms of structure, a ranger platoon would be very similar to a standard light infantry platoon. I think structurally, an SF detachment (and I'm just assuming, a 1st SFOD unit) has more in common with a SEAL platoon than a regular light infantry platoon. I believe that a Platoon Leader in the Ranger Regiment is generally a 1LT. That is my understanding.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-15-2009, 09:59 PM | #3884 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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From my reading, I think it's similar structurally. The way they carry out some missions are different, but the accounts of Delta's operations are certainly conducted in a much more tacticall and serious manner than Mr. Hama's comic book adventures... however, these new insights into Delta Force will certainly inform my Joeverse.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-16-2009, 12:04 AM | #3885 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Yeah, Ranger platoon leaders are 1st Lt. There platoons are set up a lot like airborne, light infantry and air assault platoons. They do, however, have special insertion teams that attend special forces schools. They might operate differently, but here's a typical Ranger Platoon.
The platoon HQ consists of a platoon leader (1LT), platoon sgt (E7), and RATELO (E3) and if fire support is needed, there will be a forward observer (E5) and another RATELO. Then there are three rifle squads and a machine gun squad. Each rifle squad has the following: Squad Leader (E6), two Team Leaders (E5), two Automatic Riflemen (E4) with M249 SAWs, two Grenadiers (E4) with M203 and two Riflemen (E3 or E4). The machine gun squad has a Squad Leader (E6) and three 3-man machine gun team, consisting of a gunner, assistant gunner and ammo bearer. And, again depending on the METT-TC, a 2-man sniper team may be attached to the platoon. |
03-16-2009, 12:08 AM | #3886 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Quote:
Oliverbox I went ahead to borders and picked up Kill Bin Laden. I'm half done. It's a great story and it helps add another level to my Joe verse of what these guys are capable of. As well as let you in on the Unit's interaction with other Special Operators and a pretty good sense of how missions are run from the top down. The CIA plays a big part of of Delta.
As far as I can tell Delta Force operates with the same type of command structure of any other military unit with three slight differences. NCOs have a lot of say in all matters. They don't outrank the officers by any means, but this leads to the second major difference. All these guys are seasoned military guys. There may be some Staff Sergeants, but mostly SFC and up. I don't think there are any LT in Delta. So where a normal Green Beret team is a LT and a WO with a Master Sgt... Delta is a Major two or three Sgt Majors!!! and a bunch of SFCs and Master Sgt. Which gives you the last major difference, and that is everyone of them is a complete bad-ass, even the weakest link. Weapons experts everyone, training in all types of realms. And then more training. These guys are well into their 30's, much like I imagined most of the Joes. Just ranks didn't always reflect that correctly. I need to read a few other books, but there is very little written on Delta from anyone who actually knows what they are talking about. I think I need to look at the SAD guys, as many are actually former Delta operators and Green Berets. This may give us a closer idea of how the Joes are structured. |
03-16-2009, 12:10 AM | #3887 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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Quote:
I always had him standing at the checkpoint with Mutt, but a lot of MP as actually Airborne qualified since they are required to be deployed to the frontlines of any major city to serve as security right away. Plus at critical times like the beginning of an engagement they would be responsible for transport and protection of any key individuals. High level prisoners, high level judges, high level ambassadors, etc., Unfortunately the few times the Joes transported prisoners, Shockwave is usually there, wasting away, Grand-Slam since he doesn't have anything else to do is there too, and it usually ends badly.
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03-16-2009, 12:13 AM | #3888 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
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So I was wondering, which ARAH figures would make your top five or top ten list? I would ask who's you're all time favorite but that would be like asking a parent who his favorite kid is. You can base your choices on the figures themselves and anything about the figure's character that just makes him an awesome Joe in your mind.
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03-16-2009, 12:31 AM | #3889 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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The funny thing about the state of infantry organization right now is the Army's been trying for the past few years to re-organize around the Stryker armored vehicle (just another example of the strange approach they've been using lately, organizing men around equipment needs, instead of vice-versa).
And while units like the ranger regiment are for the most part untouched by the whole ass-backwards "equipment dictates manpower allocation" phenomena, I can see that possibly changing in the future, as military equipment contractors start having a larger and larger say in how the military is organized. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if in the future, a ranger squad's composition will be organized based not on sound small unit tactics, but on how many people and how much equipment can fit inside the Army brass' new pet project (the SOCV/LSV). [here's where I go off on a little rant, feel free to ignore this portion] It's been a disturbing trend over the past few years, where commanders have been bending over backwards to accomodate companies like General Dynamics, Boeing, and Lockheed, sometimes at the cost of strategic and tactical flexibility. Part of this is because some of these generals are looking at fat consultancy positions at these same companies after retirement. This should be raising "conflict-of-interest" flags and I wonder why there hasn't been a bigger public outcry over this, especially since some of these commercially-motivated actions have directly led to the loss of soldiers' lives and gross overspending (the V-22 Osprey scandal probably being the highest profile example). |
03-16-2009, 12:39 AM | #3890 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
|
Quote:
The funny thing about the state of infantry organization right now is the Army's been trying for the past few years to re-organize around the Stryker armored vehicle (just another example of the strange approach they've been using lately, organizing men around equipment needs, instead of vice-versa).
And while units like the ranger regiment are for the most part untouched by the whole ass-backwards "equipment dictates manpower allocation" phenomena, I can see that possibly changing in the future, as military equipment contractors start having a larger and larger say in how the military is organized. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if in the future, a ranger squad's composition will be organized based not on sound small unit tactics, but on how many people and how much equipment can fit inside the Army brass' new pet project (the SOCV/LSV). [here's where I go off on a little rant, feel free to ignore this portion] It's been a disturbing trend over the past few years, where commanders have been bending over backwards to accomodate companies like General Dynamics, Boeing, and Lockheed, sometimes at the cost of strategic and tactical flexibility. Part of this is because some of these generals are looking at fat consultancy positions at these same companies after retirement. This should be raising "conflict-of-interest" flags and I wonder why there hasn't been a bigger public outcry over this, especially since some of these commercially-motivated actions have directly led to the loss of soldiers' lives and gross overspending (the V-22 Osprey scandal probably being the highest profile example). |
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