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03-14-2009, 02:56 AM | #3851 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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I heard back from Larry Hama. Here is is unedited response...
"To tell the truth all these details are what interest me the least. Yes, I had to do the homework to make the framework right, but it's the characters motivations and inner working that interest me. I don't care what school Raskalnikov (in Crime and Punishment) went to, all I care is about what goes through his head when he climbs the pawnbroker's stairs. Most of the time I just made stuff up off the top of my head. In some cases the rank of the character was imposed by Hasbro, ie: Lt. Falcon. Don't get military rank confused with pay grade. That's why they have the term "hard stripe" and all it connotes. A captain might command a company, but it belongs to the First Sergeant. LH" I'm sure we'll all digest this statement and take it completely apart, but as far as I'm concerned, it completely validates my earlier statements about Mr. Hama's focus not being on organizing the team. Mr. Hama thinks tactically. His stories were character driven. Most of our attempts at organizing the team have been larger in scope and detail oriented. He was writing stories. We're trying to organize a small Army. It's just a difference in focus.
__________________
Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-14-2009, 10:25 AM | #3852 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
I heard back from Larry Hama. Here is is unedited response...
"To tell the truth all these details are what interest me the least. Yes, I had to do the homework to make the framework right, but it's the characters motivations and inner working that interest me. I don't care what school Raskalnikov (in Crime and Punishment) went to, all I care is about what goes through his head when he climbs the pawnbroker's stairs. Most of the time I just made stuff up off the top of my head. In some cases the rank of the character was imposed by Hasbro, ie: Lt. Falcon. Don't get military rank confused with pay grade. That's why they have the term "hard stripe" and all it connotes. A captain might command a company, but it belongs to the First Sergeant. LH" I'm sure we'll all digest this statement and take it completely apart, but as far as I'm concerned, it completely validates my earlier statements about Mr. Hama's focus not being on organizing the team. Mr. Hama thinks tactically. His stories were character driven. Most of our attempts at organizing the team have been larger in scope and detail oriented. He was writing stories. We're trying to organize a small Army. It's just a difference in focus. |
03-14-2009, 10:49 AM | #3853 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I'm thinking all subsequent questions should avoid military command structure altogether. I'd be curious about Cobra command structure too, but it seems like most of us will have a more thought out command structure. Larry didn't spend too much time on that. We could ask about Cobra backgrounds, like were we to assume some cobras are former Green Berets, but we have Maj Bludd. Or why are Crimson Guards E-4s when they should be officers, but there is no real good reason.
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03-14-2009, 11:01 AM | #3854 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
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Quote:
Well, it seems to me that Joe is NOT like delta force. Since a lot of the Joes on their file cards say they were recruited into G.I. Joe w/o previous army experience. Like Quick-Kick I believe. So the argument of different specialties taking command is somewhat valid. But in my opinion it would be more like Duke saying, "Ok Shockwave, this is what you do best, what's our next move on this urban entry?" And less of shockwave saying No Duke I know whats best this is what we should do.
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03-14-2009, 02:23 PM | #3855 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
I'm thinking all subsequent questions should avoid military command structure altogether. I'd be curious about Cobra command structure too, but it seems like most of us will have a more thought out command structure. Larry didn't spend too much time on that. We could ask about Cobra backgrounds, like were we to assume some cobras are former Green Berets, but we have Maj Bludd. Or why are Crimson Guards E-4s when they should be officers, but there is no real good reason.
Questions about a Cobra chain of command or the military training of Cobra agents will probably meet with the same lack of interest/response. It's frustrating. I'm almost at a loss for what the next question should be... I almost don't want to ask anymore. If Mr. Hama's responses have been any indication of what we can expect, then I feel like we're just setting our selves up for further disappointment. And I guess I should have known better to begin with. I think I was hoping that Mr. Hama had some chart, some really organized system for how to run the Joeverse. And I just also assumed that his system would be far superior to anything we had come up with on our own because he had access to more information, and because he got to design it himself. I figured if we could hear how he organized the Joes, it would clear a lot of questions up in our minds... that simply isn't the case. I think a lot of us have a much better system of organization than Mr. Hama ever had. There's a lot of reasons for that, but the main one may simply be that he wasn't interested in organizing the Joes all that much. When I was a child, the comic seemed really real. However, as I've gone back and looked over it, I still smile with nostalgia, but there's a lot that just doesn't add up... it was a comic book, not an Army Operations Order. So maybe we can think about what we would like to ask Mr. Hama. Maybe we can come up with another question, but I'm at a bit of a loss. To me, the military training and command structure are essential to who these characters are in my Joeverse. If that's meaningless to Mr. Hama, I don't think he has too much to offer to my Joeverse.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-14-2009, 02:39 PM | #3856 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
I think I was hoping that Mr. Hama had some chart, some really organized system for how to run the Joeverse. And I just also assumed that his system would be far superior to anything we had come up with on our own because he had access to more information, and because he got to design it himself. I figured if we could hear how he organized the Joes, it would clear a lot of questions up in our minds... that simply isn't the case.
I think a lot of us have a much better system of organization than Mr. Hama ever had. There's a lot of reasons for that, but the main one may simply be that he wasn't interested in organizing the Joes all that much. When I was a child, the comic seemed really real. However, as I've gone back and looked over it, I still smile with nostalgia, but there's a lot that just doesn't add up... it was a comic book, not an Army Operations Order. So maybe we can think about what we would like to ask Mr. Hama. Maybe we can come up with another question, but I'm at a bit of a loss. To me, the military training and command structure are essential to who these characters are in my Joeverse. If that's meaningless to Mr. Hama, I don't think he has too much to offer to my Joeverse. I know it sounds like Hama didn't care about command structure and similar concerns in his e-mailed reply, but I took it more to mean that he was saying that "whatever works for you" is how the team command is structured. I'm disappointed in his reply only to the extent that there's no official canon I can reference, but at the same time, I think this also means any well-thought out and well-researched fan-made rationalization for the GI Joe team's command structure is as valid as any other. |
03-14-2009, 03:59 PM | #3857 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
Well, the flipside to all this is it gives us fans more "official" leeway to play around with command structure and such when recreating our "own" version of GI Joe via custom figures, fan-fic, video game mods, etc.
I know it sounds like Hama didn't care about command structure and similar concerns in his e-mailed reply, but I took it more to mean that he was saying that "whatever works for you" is how the team command is structured. I'm disappointed in his reply only to the extent that there's no official canon I can reference, but at the same time, I think this also means any well-thought out and well-researched fan-made rationalization for the GI Joe team's command structure is as valid as any other. I'm very interested to hear what the rest of you think.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-14-2009, 05:57 PM | #3858 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Montana raised currently in Utah
Posts: 127
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I said we would probably be disappointed by his answer. But to me it makes sense. A rigid military structure would prolly interfere with the limited space he has to tell the stories. And like I said Joe IS NOT delta force. There is a command structure, but Joe has a bunch of non-military people in it. To me people like Quick-Kick would be selected for Joe, then put through basic and all of the training Joe would require, but the big difference is that they chose him w/o military exp playing into it. Joe just can't exist in real life, there has always been a fantastical element to it and that applies to its structure and who commands/ who is superior to what.
I for one am glad to know that the reasons for some of the inconsistencies we have found in training / rank is due to what Hama believed to be more important: Who these people are and what stories he can tell. You don't love people like Stalker because he may or may not be a Green Beret, you like him cause of who he is and the stories that surround him. Low-Light isn't awesome because he's an E-6 (random rank) He's awesome cause of what he's done. At least that's what I think.
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03-14-2009, 06:03 PM | #3859 |
EQ-Viper
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,343
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Quote:
If you, or anybody else wants it (out of curiousity, or as a framework for their own "Joe-verse" ideas), I can post it somewhere for download (well, as soon as I can find it among the pile of back-up CDs and DVDs I've collected over the years). And obviously, I offer the resource for non-commercial purposes only, I don't want to get in trouble with copyright violations (unless, of course, Mr. Hama or some guy at IDW Comics reads this and wants to pay me for the rights to the manual!) |
03-14-2009, 07:31 PM | #3860 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
NP, man, you're welcome. If anything, I think this opens up the possibility of sharing our formalized ideas about how a putative GI Joe chain of command and organization would be set-up. I've got a 100+ page reference "bible" (in PDF form) from an aborted project a few years ago, when I was working on a pitch for a GI Joe comic book revival (this was before DDP got the license). It's basically written up and formatted like one of the old illustrated Field Army Manuals, and I included stuff like a TOE (table of organization and equipment), organizational diagrams, and even re-wrote most of the filecards (1982 to 1987 characters only), updating training and school information for each character to match the then-current DoD information (all based on unclassified material mixed with a healthy dose of artistic license, of course, so there's nothing there that violates opsec). It's probably tedious reading for the casual Joe fan or for somebody who isn't interested in contemporary militaria, but I imagine there are some people on these forums who'd find some use for it.
If you, or anybody else wants it (out of curiousity, or as a framework for their own "Joe-verse" ideas), I can post it somewhere for download (well, as soon as I can find it among the pile of back-up CDs and DVDs I've collected over the years). And obviously, I offer the resource for non-commercial purposes only, I don't want to get in trouble with copyright violations (unless, of course, Mr. Hama or some guy at IDW Comics reads this and wants to pay me for the rights to the manual!) |
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