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03-06-2009, 02:45 PM | #3631 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
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Quote:
I definately agree that Recondo is Special Forces. He meets the criteria, though it's not officially confirmed. I also think he was a Ranger and not a Marine, but there was a slight possibility because according to some personal anecdotes from ex LRRPs, they trained alongside some Marines in Recondo School, and the Okinawa JWTC has been taught by Marines since the late 50s and I don't think Recondo's file card specifies which one he attended. This is mostly speculation--and I still lean toward Army Ranger--but it raises some doubt.
It seems to me that if Recondo were intended to be a Marine, they would have made a much bigger deal of it, and made a real effort to make it clear that he's a Marine. Besides that, "Recondo" is an Army word. Marines may have attended the school. Marines certainly served in LRRP units. But Recondo was an Army School, is and Army word, and is still used as an award at West Point for cadets. It would almost be like calling an Army Soldier "Tripoli" or "Iwo Jima"... it just wouldn't make a lot of sense.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-06-2009, 02:47 PM | #3632 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
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Well, I certainly wasn't there. HA HA HA
My dad was at Ft. Campbell during the last days of the Recondo School... they had moved it back to Ft. Campbell after Vietnam. When it moved stateside, it was like "Junior Ranger School". They gave out "Recondo" tabs instead of the coveted Arrowhead "Recondo" patch they had in Vietnam. The eventually ended the Recondo school because it was expensive to maintain, and it just duplicated a lot of stuff that was going on at Ranger School. But at Nha Trang - That was a different story. I've read several first hand accounts and I've seen a documentary on it. When they transferred all the LRRPs to the 75th Ranger Regiment, that changed a lot. LRRPs were the Ranger elite. Nha Trang was pretty much run by Special Forces. It was like Ranger finishing school, and not every Ranger got to go... prior to the establishment of the 75th Ranger Regiment, it is certainly possible that some soldiers who were not yet Ranger qualified got to go to Recondo School. Say for example, the 25th needed some guys to be Recondo Trained so the 25th could put together it's own LRRP unit like every other Combat division had. They might just send the best guys they had and get them trained up really quick. That didn't work out very well... a lot of guys died. So the Army formed the 75th Ranger Regiment. Rangers had not served as "Ranger Units" since Korea. Once the 75th took over the LRRPs, training got a lot more standardized and much less haphazard. Recondo School became a finishing school for the Ranger elite. So what I said earlier, really refers to the Post 75th Regiment Army. At least, that is my understanding. |
03-06-2009, 02:52 PM | #3633 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
So a revised Barrell Roll filecard redone to help clarify his branch and role.
"Barrell Roll comes from an army family. The Stalls have always had a member in the army for as long as they can remember. His older brother joined and when it came his turn, Barrell Roll followed his love for the sky and joined the Air Force to become a fighter pilot. He had received his pilot's liscense even before getting his driver's liscense. Became one of the youngest fighter pilots ever. Well on a top secret mission he was shot down behind enemy lines. He barely made it back to safety. Realizing that he wasn't prepared for it to ever happen again, he transfered to the Army and joined the Rangers, so he'd be prepared for combat on the ground. Like everything he does, he excelled and quickly became an Airborne Ranger. He takes special pride in being able to fight at an elite level in the air and on the ground. Has been thinking of taking SEaL training in his spare time." "Barrell Roll is a perfectionist and overachiever. If he does something, he'll be one of the best at it. This would annoy his teammates if he had anything resembling an inflated ego. He knows he's good, but he also knows he's not the best. His biggest flaw is that he will go out of his way to repair the Stall family name that he feels his older brother tarnished with his defection to Cobra." Need some help fleshing it out and making it read better. Are you keeping him as an Officer? Because every pilot in the Air Force is an Officer, and once you're any kind of Commissioned Officer they don't let you re-enlist as an enlisted soldier in any branch of service. I'm not sure what you mean by taking SEAL training in his "spare time"? BUD/S is intense... there's no "part time" SEAL training. If he didn't have the nerve to get back up in a Jet to fly again because he was afraid of getting shot down again, he wouldn't have the stuff to make it as a Ranger. I've never met a pilot who I thought was as mentally tough as a Ranger. Smarter? Sure. Pilots are often very intelligent. But tougher? Mentally tougher? Pilots are very focused, but Rangers define Tough.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-06-2009, 02:52 PM | #3634 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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Quote:
You're making a fair point. It's not conclusive that he's not a Marine. However, it seems that at that time, the Marines in G.I. Joe were specifically designated as such. Gung-Ho was sort of a Jungle fighter, but his credentials as a Marine were made very obvious - same with Leatherneck. Even Mainframe had the Eagle, Globe and Anchor on his helmet in plain sight.
It seems to me that if Recondo were intended to be a Marine, they would have made a much bigger deal of it, and made a real effort to make it clear that he's a Marine. Besides that, "Recondo" is an Army word. Marines may have attended the school. Marines certainly served in LRRP units. But Recondo was an Army School, is and Army word, and is still used as an award at West Point for cadets. It would almost be like calling an Army Soldier "Tripoli" or "Iwo Jima"... it just wouldn't make a lot of sense. |
03-06-2009, 03:01 PM | #3635 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
Rangers are pretty protective of that name. If someone claims to be a Ranger who is not, a Ranger will usually go out of their way to make an on the spot correction and call the guy out. As a young LT, I noticed how the Rangers rolled their hats a certain way; it's called a "Ranger Roll"... and it looked cool, and I thought "Man, I should 'Ranger Roll' my hat because it would look better." The next day, a Captain stopped me. He was a friend, but he took me aside and said, "Lt. Box, you can't "Ranger Roll" your soft cover. You're not a Ranger, and that's a Ranger thing. If the Sgt. Major sees you with that, you're going to be in trouble." It wasn't even like I was saying I was a Ranger or had falsely sewn a Ranger Tab on my uniform. I had just rolled my hat differently, and this guy was all over it. They take that stuff seriously, because Ranger School is REALLY tough, and those guys earn it.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-06-2009, 03:01 PM | #3636 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,157
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Quote:
Well, I know I have said that on multiple occasions, but I don't know if you're referring to my posts or not. I think that may be one of the most overlooked of Stalker's abilities/training. It isn't military training, but as far as insurgency and urban warfare, it's hard to argue with a gang lord's credentials. I will probably use the new Rip Cord figure as an urban warfare Stalker.
I also think, that when we add this credential/expertise to Stalker's other list of training and expertise, not to mention experience, it's just that much more of a reason why the man would be selected for Special Forces Training. He's just as well rounded as anyone else on the Joe team... as much as Flint, Claymore... anybody. |
03-06-2009, 03:02 PM | #3637 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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Quote:
Troynos, I like what you're trying to do, but I have a few questions with some of what you've written. Barrel Roll is a great character, and the DDP/File card inconsistencies drive me crazy, too.
Are you keeping him as an Officer? Because every pilot in the Air Force is an Officer, and once you're any kind of Commissioned Officer they don't let you re-enlist as an enlisted soldier in any branch of service. I'm not sure what you mean by taking SEAL training in his "spare time"? BUD/S is intense... there's no "part time" SEAL training. If he didn't have the nerve to get back up in a Jet to fly again because he was afraid of getting shot down again, he wouldn't have the stuff to make it as a Ranger. I've never met a pilot who I thought was as mentally tough as a Ranger. Smarter? Sure. Pilots are often very intelligent. But tougher? Mentally tougher? Pilots are very focused, but Rangers define Tough. |
03-06-2009, 03:03 PM | #3638 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
I think a Marine Corps officer is LONG overdue, and we just need more Marines! You get no argument from me on that account. I'm the one whose always arguing that Mace, Mirage, Bull Horn, and Long Arm should be considered Marines. We need more Marines in G.I. Joe.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-06-2009, 03:06 PM | #3639 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Quote:
Troynos, I like what you're trying to do, but I have a few questions with some of what you've written. Barrel Roll is a great character, and the DDP/File card inconsistencies drive me crazy, too.
Are you keeping him as an Officer? Because every pilot in the Air Force is an Officer, and once you're any kind of Commissioned Officer they don't let you re-enlist as an enlisted soldier in any branch of service. I'm not sure what you mean by taking SEAL training in his "spare time"? BUD/S is intense... there's no "part time" SEAL training. If he didn't have the nerve to get back up in a Jet to fly again because he was afraid of getting shot down again, he wouldn't have the stuff to make it as a Ranger. I've never met a pilot who I thought was as mentally tough as a Ranger. Smarter? Sure. Pilots are often very intelligent. But tougher? Mentally tougher? Pilots are very focused, but Rangers define Tough. It's not lose of nerve, that probably didn't read well. Meant it that once he was shot down, he didn't think he had the necessary skills to be an effective combat soldier on the ground (ever see Behind Enemy Lines with Owen Wilson? He plays a pilot shot down, but acts more like a ground pounder once he's down). I'm trying to portray BR as a guy that has to be the best at everything he does. So he was shot down and barely made it back. He didn't think he was trained well enough to fight effectively on the ground. Once down, he had to escape, couldn't do any ground fighting. So he decided to do the family thing and become join the Army. I'd even say he gave up his pilot commission, and re-earned his rank thru the Army the hard way.
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03-06-2009, 03:10 PM | #3640 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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No. I think the LRRP guys at the Division levels were called, simply, "LURPs". The 101st called their LRRP unit "Pathfinders". They were pretty famous... that name was held over from WWII... even today, the 101st Division's Recon unit - Long Range Surveillance - is called "Pathfinders".
Rangers are pretty protective of that name. If someone claims to be a Ranger who is not, a Ranger will usually go out of their way to make an on the spot correction and call the guy out. As a young LT, I noticed how the Rangers rolled their hats a certain way; it's called a "Ranger Roll"... and it looked cool, and I thought "Man, I should 'Ranger Roll' my hat because it would look better." The next day, a Captain stopped me. He was a friend, but he took me aside and said, "Lt. Box, you can't "Ranger Roll" your soft cover. You're not a Ranger, and that's a Ranger thing. If the Sgt. Major sees you with that, you're going to be in trouble." It wasn't even like I was saying I was a Ranger or had falsely sewn a Ranger Tab on my uniform. I had just rolled my hat differently, and this guy was all over it. They take that stuff seriously, because Ranger School is REALLY tough, and those guys earn it. There's an ex LRRP who has written some info about his experience and he says he was from the 71st when he went to Recondo School but he laters refers to the LRRPs as Ranger-LRRPs. |
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