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03-02-2009, 03:29 PM | #3121 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
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I'm very glad to have Colonel Hawk on the thread.
However, I would like to take issue with a few of the points that were made in his introductory post. It was long. And it may be more helpful in the future to tackle one issue at a time. But since so much of Colonel Hawk's post dealt with the ongoing discussion on qualifications, of which I have been a part, let me begin there. Every collector on this thread seems to have their own Joeverse. Every one of us has our own chain-of-command and structure for their Joe Team based on the size of their collection, and their own preferences. I have certainly tweeked my own Joeverse by giving certain Joes promotions, etc. My friend, Loose Cannon, has developed a very good system of his own that is very different from mine and we have shared some helpful ideas with one another to help us with our own respective Joeverses. However, for all of us, it is important to understand the base line. What's the official qualifications of the Joe Team as provided by Hasbro/Marvel/DDP/IDW. The official Cannon of file cards and comic books are important to understand so that we, as a gathered community of fans, can have a common base of knowledge from which to work. In other words, there's a way the characters are "supposed" to work. For example, if Loose Cannon uses Duke as a Colonel in his Joeverse, he does so with the understanding that Duke is "supposed" to be a First Sgt. and so when he discusses Duke here, he uses the "official" understanding of Duke as a baseline for conversation. Likewise, when I use Claymore as a Major, or change Super Trooper's code name to "Talon", I do so knowing that Claymore is "supposed" to be a Captain, and that Super Trooper's code name is "supposed" to be Super Trooper. The official, canonized qualifications are the baseline of discussion on this thread. If a tanker says, "I use Snake-Eyes as a Coast Guard cook" that's fine for their Joeverse, but that's not the official MOS/qualification for Snake-Eyes. It's the nuances of the file cards over the course of 25+ years and all that was written in the Comics that can be evaluated and discussed... Is Roadblock a Green Beret? Well, looking at the cannon, there is arguable evidence to suggest it. It's not like someone just decided that they liked Roadblock enough to make him an "official" Green Beret. Now about Stalker and Outback, both of whom I do consider to be Green Berets in MY Joeverse... Stalker as a Green Beret? Other than the hat he was given in his original uniform, there is no hard evidence to prove he's Special Forces qualified. Does it make sense for him to be a Green Beret? Sure. Does he have the kind of qualifications that would have made him a great candidate for SF selection? of course. If someone considered him a Green Beret in their Joeverse, could I go along with it? sure. But is there any official, definitive evidence that Stalker ever went through the JFK Special Warfare Training Center at Ft. Bragg? No. Not one shred of evidence to prove he's qualified in any 18 series MOS... same with Outback. Outback is certainly a Ranger, but there's no proof that he's a Green Beret. Could he be? Sure, I think so. Do we know for certain? No. Again, most of you have seen the pics of the Special Forces A-Team that Marine Deadpool is making for me. Stalker is on that team, and Outback will be as soon as I can get my hands on the new 7 pack. So for me, Stalker and Outback are 18 series MOS qualified. But insofar as the "official" qualifications go, Stalker is a Recondo/LRRP trained Ranger, and Outback is a Ranger. Recondo is more of a possibility because he served as Cadre at the Jungle Warfare School... that school was primarily run by Special Forces (7th Group). Low-Light is another unknown. His being a sniper instructor for the Army practically guarantees that he's Ranger qualified, but there's no proof of it... and NO proof that he's Special Forces qualified, even though he is in MY Joeverse. Would the Army have discharged Snake-Eyes? Yes. Could the C.I.A. or the D.I.A. or the N.S.A. have retained him as an asset? Absolutely. But the DOD's requirements for the basic health qualifications of a soldier would have had Snake-Eyes medically retired as an active duty soldier. Is G.I. Joe fantasy? Certainly, but Snake-Eyes mythology and soap-opera craziness just got ridiculous in eve comic book storyline... DDP was tame compared to Hama's work with Snake-Eyes. And Snake-Eyes is a Recondo/LRRP trained Ranger. His qualifications have been better explained than almost any other Joe's. According to the "official story line", he never went to Ft. Bragg to become a Green Beret. But like Stalker and Outback and Recondo, Snake-Eyes in on my custom ODA (Special Forces) Team. So, if someone wants to use Stalker and Snake-Eyes and Outback and Recondo and Low-Light or even Scoop as a Green Beret, that's their business for their Joeverse... but "official" qualifications need evidence based in the cannon. That's my opinion, and I'm interested to hear the responses.
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03-02-2009, 03:31 PM | #3122 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Atlanta
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03-02-2009, 03:37 PM | #3123 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Maybe we need to write Larry an email, "Hey Larry what's the deal with Ripcord, Recondo, Outback, Roadblock/Heavy Duty, Stalker? These guys have to have some sort of Special Forces training?
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03-02-2009, 03:38 PM | #3124 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
Instead you air-drop [Snake-Eyes] at 0330 in the dark waters off some Pacific island, where he has to swim thirty miles to shore, hike another twenty miles through backwater, brine and steamy bush. Free climb ninety feet of granite crag with sixty pounds of gear and demo. Survive on tubers, insects and jungle root while scouting out hostile installations for seven days. Then crawl out of there trackless like a ghost, not a shot fired, until the delayed demo blows and before anyone knows what the hell happened, he's sitting on the floor of a Blackhawk reading his next orders. Now what other Joe is crazy enough to do that?!
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-02-2009, 03:38 PM | #3125 |
Field Commander
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Whitefish Montana
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Originally Posted by Tanksmasher :
"Instead you air-drop the sonofabitch at 0330 in the dark waters off some Pacific island, where he has to swim thirty miles to shore, hike another twenty miles through backwater, brine and steamy bush. Free climb ninety feet of granite crag with sixty pounds of gear and demo. Survive on tubers, insects and jungle root while scouting out hostile installations for seven days. Then crawl out of there trackless like a ghost, not a shot fired, until the delayed demo blows and before anyone knows what the hell happened, he's sitting on the floor of a Blackhawk reading his next orders. Now what Joe is crazy enough to do that!" Quote:
AMEN! Right on target! |
03-02-2009, 03:38 PM | #3126 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,224
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Quote:
Yeah, I agree... I guess that's why I'm excited about the new movie Figures... it looks like we're getting some good urban and desert uniforms for a lot of characters... including a much more realistic/tactical Zartan.
But not to leave my friend, Tanksmasher, in a lurch... let's revisit the sniper teams. Let's list all the Sniper/Sharp Shooters. (*Best Snipers) 1. Scarlett 2. Spirit 3. Snow Job 4. Low-Light* 5. Claymore 6. Cross Hair* 7. Hollow Point* 8. Frost Bite 9. Barrel Roll* 10. Bull Horn 11... etc. Tanksmasher, how would you want to use them or pair them up - 1,2, or 3 man teams. Squad Leader: Low-Light (E6) A Team Leader with XM107: Side Track (E6) Sniper/Spotter with M24: Bull Horn (E5) Assistant/Security with M203: Ambush (E3) B Team Leader with XM107: Hollow Point (E6) Sniper/Spotter with M24: Cross Hair (E4) Assistant/Security with M203: Barrel Roll (E4) |
03-02-2009, 03:40 PM | #3127 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,754
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That quote reminded me that I still haven't painted up my Night Force Scarlett.
Oliver is right, for baseline discussions, gotta go off what is in the cards. But Stalker and Outback would definately be Green Berets. I think there's enough circumstancal evidence and enough pieces given that it adds up to them being Green Berets. If you were to compare Stalker's and Falcon's filecards, they're pretty similar. Both are combat medics, both have the languages. I think there's enough pieces that point to Stalker being a Green Beret. Could throw Duke into the ring as well.
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03-02-2009, 03:41 PM | #3128 |
#voteblackjack
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I would love to sit down with Hama and discuss nothing but the filecards and what he thought/intended each Joe to be.
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03-02-2009, 03:42 PM | #3129 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
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It seems like IDW is using Snake-Eyes the "right" way. He's an "off the books" asset that's out there by himself doing what he needs to be doing.
I found it interesting that Scarlett's career could be endangered by associating with SE. So does that mean SE is "rogue" or was it a case of he's still working for Hawk but "on the sly" where the others don't know it.
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03-02-2009, 03:44 PM | #3130 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Quote:
Well gee, I never thought you'd ask. Let's see. It will be mission dependent. But for urban environments with mechanized support, I'd recommend the following:
Squad Leader: Low-Light (E6) A Team Leader with XM107: Side Track (E6) Sniper/Spotter with M24: Bull Horn (E5) Assistant/Security with M203: Ambush (E3) B Team Leader with XM107: Hollow Point (E6) Sniper/Spotter with M24: Cross Hair (E4) Assistant/Security with M203: Barrel Roll (E4) You put the "second string" snipers on your Alpha team, and the Joes who specialize in sharpshooting are on your Bravo Team... Hmmm, what are you thinking? You've got something up your sleeve, don't you? I'm interested by your choices of Side Track and Ambush on the same team... they would make great spotters, but both on the same team? You've peaked my interest, my friend.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
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