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03-01-2009, 09:43 PM | #3101 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Atlantic City, NJ
Posts: 1,387
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Hey guys! It's good to see this amazing thread is still going strong! So someone sum up what I've missed! haha. Kidding.
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Cold Slither |
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03-01-2009, 11:29 PM | #3102 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
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Where to begin.. uhm.. uh..
Joes are cool.
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03-01-2009, 11:57 PM | #3103 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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Ok, ok I give up, so two-man teams it is, unless something exceptionally noteworthy arises and Low-Light is the only man for the job. Then we send in Low-Light. You know I've always wanted to see an arctic Low-Light. I think he should be deployable to all regions through various insertions: airborne, amphibious, desert, jungle, arctic, etc.
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03-02-2009, 12:43 AM | #3104 |
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Atlantic City, NJ
Posts: 1,387
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Cold Slither |
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03-02-2009, 01:10 AM | #3105 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Yeah, I agree... I guess that's why I'm excited about the new movie Figures... it looks like we're getting some good urban and desert uniforms for a lot of characters... including a much more realistic/tactical Zartan.
But not to leave my friend, Tanksmasher, in a lurch... let's revisit the sniper teams. Let's list all the Sniper/Sharp Shooters. (*Best Snipers) 1. Scarlett 2. Spirit 3. Snow Job 4. Low-Light* 5. Claymore 6. Cross Hair* 7. Hollow Point* 8. Frost Bite 9. Barrel Roll* 10. Bull Horn 11... etc. Tanksmasher, how would you want to use them or pair them up - 1,2, or 3 man teams.
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
03-02-2009, 03:20 AM | #3106 |
disgruntled goat
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NYS- Finger Lakes
Posts: 2,110
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Quote:
Yeah, I agree... I guess that's why I'm excited about the new movie Figures... it looks like we're getting some good urban and desert uniforms for a lot of characters... including a much more realistic/tactical Zartan.
But not to leave my friend, Tanksmasher, in a lurch... let's revisit the sniper teams. Let's list all the Sniper/Sharp Shooters. (*Best Snipers) 1. Scarlett 2. Spirit 3. Snow Job 4. Low-Light* 5. Claymore 6. Cross Hair* 7. Hollow Point* 8. Frost Bite 9. Barrel Roll* 10. Bull Horn 11... etc. Tanksmasher, how would you want to use them or pair them up - 1,2, or 3 man teams. you've got 10 joes listed so 5 two man teams seems like the easy way to go. exceptions being Barrel Roll, cuz i don't think any of the others could do what he does & Low Light because he is recognized as being exceptional as well. so you make those two team leaders. one gets Snow Job/ Frost Bite & Scarlett/ Spirit the other gets Claymore/ Cross Hair & Bull Horn/ Hollow Point. Now BR & LL can solo or be the third man for one of their teams depending on the op. i don't know hollow point's story and can't find a filecard for him at yojoe. can one of you guys clue me in? |
03-02-2009, 03:52 AM | #3107 |
Field Commander
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Whitefish Montana
Posts: 33
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I just wanted to pop in and add a few of my opinions and or observations. I have been wanting to reply to many discussion points on this thread for a while, but couldn't ever seem to get current with the thread as a whole. Today I read at least a hundred pages and finally got caught up.
Someone beat me to the punch mentioning Sci-Fi being the only Joe from Montana. As a kid I thought he was pretty awesome almost because of that alone, though since straight arm Flash(as well as Breaker) were my first Joes, I have always had a soft spot for those laser guys With as many outdoorsmen that we have around here, I would like to have some Berets, Rangers, or Marines from my fine state as well.(If you think Billings is beautiful, try the northwest part of the state, smack dab in the middle of the Rocky Mountains, and home to Glacier National Park!) I have to say though, I have always wondered why Sci-Fi wasn't an update for Flash, or why Footloose wasn't an updated Grunt, or Bazooka for Zap, or Dial Tone for Breaker, Downtown for Short Fuze...etc. As much as I like all of those "new" characters I love updated versions of the originals. Many of the complaints I have seen directed at the filecards can be laid directly at the feet of Hasbro. Mr. Hama did write most of them, at least the first draft anyway, though Hasbro was notorious for editing them, or sometimes outright rewriting them. In the first 5 or so years of Joe Hama was the primary writer, and the cards hit the mark more often than not. Later hasbro took over full time. Hasbro had some weird ideas even early on though, such as making Zap a "bazooka" trooper, and naming their next anti-tank specialist "Bazooka". Hama argued with them over this several times exclaiming that "bazookas" hadn't been used since WW2. I wonder if we would have gotten "Zap:anti-armor specialist, or Missile Specialist-Code Name: Dragon or Javelin if Hama had his way. I think the rank issues are mostly misprints, and I know many times Hasbro decided what they wanted ranks to be with no thought to Hama's opinion. A lot of this info is available from places like Mark Bellomo's book "The Ultimate Guide to Gijoe" and from interviews with Hama that you can find around the Net'. As far as what certain Joes may or may not be, I find it fascinating how some Tankers can justify their thoughts on certain Joes' qualifications, and then say others don't share those qualifications when it is all conjecture. I agree with Troynos 100% that all Joes should be Rangers, Seals, Berets, Marine Recon, PJs, top Pilots etc. Personally, even with many filecards not explicitly stating it, I can't see how a unit that is either Hasbro's representation of Delta itself, or at least a Delta equivalent, if not a Delta superior force would have any members that were not the Best of the Best. Ever since I was a child it seemed obvious to me that there were not any regular ground pounders on the team.( I hate Greenshirts! Worst idea from the cartoon, they had regular troops helping all the time anyway, why would Joe have basic infantry?) They are all elite! So on the one hand, I think that there doesn't need to be any speculation about this issue on at least a basic level. I think the lowest rung of the Joe force is Ranger equivalent. On the other hand, if you want to go beyond that, and scrutinize the filecards, and Marvel run(DDP was a disgrace to the name Joe, it didn't even have the excuse of being a nationally televised childrens' cartoon. I won't say it was completely devoid of good ideas, but even those failed in execution.) I think it is obvious that Stalker is a Green Beret. No ifs and or buts. Look at his filecard, what would a man who was a LRRP, and Ranger qualified, who was top of his class in many areas, and who has a DUAL secondary of medic and interpreter, who went to Army intelligence school and language school, who is fluent in 5 languages, and who was the #1 pick on the Joe team (both Marvel and seemingly the new IDW) be doing "just" as a Ranger/LRRP? Between Nam/"Southeast Asia" he was probably even Delta, if there is one in the Joeverse, and if not, then he was actually first pick for Joe/Delta. I don't think it needs to specifically say Special Forces school in this case. The Green hat fits him too I agree with the evidence presented that I think Roadblock is a Green Beret, and as much as I would like more Marines on the team, it always seemed obvious to me that Bullhorn was FBI, even though they messed up his rank. Recondo is also a Beret, all of his missions indicate this, and combined with his stated training as a Recondo, I don't think it is a stretch. I am curious, how many Halo jumpers are there outside the Special Forces? According to wiki, all of the units that conduct Halo jumps in the US are at least accomplished, if not elite, and the "lowest standing" Army unit are Rangers therefore Ripcord has to be at LEAST a Ranger, though it doesn't say so on his filecard. It seems highly likely that Outback is a Beret as well. Between Chuckles' filecard hints, his Nam era spook outfit, and his introductory issue that I believe specifically mentions CIA, I think it is blatantly obvious that Chuckles is the Man from Uncle Now here is a Joe that has been getting dissed here a bit of late, which boggles my mind. My all time favorite: Snake-Eyes. First of all, as much as most of us like realism in Gijoe, the fact is, Gijoe is fantasy. Gijoe is the blockbuster version of Delta, sometimes that means they are beyond what Delta is, and sometimes they can't compare to Delta's real life exploits. That said, I would find it hard to believe that the most dangerous man in the most elite unit, if not the world, would be discharged because he can't talk. It has been well established that even working with a team, that Snake-Eyes CAN communicate with them, whether through sign language, military hand signals, writing, or morse code like devices. When he is alone, it isn't an issue at all. Also, he is not a superman, and never has been, he has been shot, wounded, captured, even defeated before. He is however a highly trained and dangerous individual. I have always scratched my head at the whole Ninja/commando debate. He is both, and always has been, even if his first fig didn't come with a sword. Read his V1 filecard, it was there from the beginning. So you say he was just a Ranger with Ninja training? No way Jose'. This man is as SF qualified as anyone. His language qualifications are unknown, though we might surmise he at least knows Japanese(even if he can't SPEAK it anymore) but he has been through Ranger and LRRP and Recondo school, AND he has had extensive training in mountaineering, underwater demolitions, jungle, desert, and arctic survival, and he is also an expert with all Nato and Warsaw small arms. I think he is the most highly trained man on the team. That is without mentioning his Ninja training. He is also a completely classified individual. Why would a LRRP who became a hermit after his family died be completely classified when no one else on the team is? There has to be a reason. I think it obvious that he has been doing "government work" for a while, be it before Asia, during Asia, or even between hermit and Joe. He might not be a Beret, though I think he is, but he is at least equivalent, even if it is Spook related. Also, his AWOL "issue", even as a kid I knew Hawk just wanted deniability, but that he trusted Snake-Eyes to do whatever needed doing, it was ALWAYS obvious. The Borovia incident is a prime example. This wasn't SE just running around willy nilly. That is why he was always cut some slack. Re-read those comics folks, it is all there. Thanks for listening(those that bothered to read this book;) ), and have a good night. |
03-02-2009, 04:18 AM | #3108 |
disgruntled goat
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NYS- Finger Lakes
Posts: 2,110
|
Quote:
I just wanted to pop in and add a few of my opinions and or observations. I have been wanting to reply to many discussion points on this thread for a while, but couldn't ever seem to get current with the thread as a whole. Today I read at least a hundred pages and finally got caught up.
Someone beat me to the punch mentioning Sci-Fi being the only Joe from Montana. As a kid I thought he was pretty awesome almost because of that alone, though since straight arm Flash(as well as Breaker) were my first Joes, I have always had a soft spot for those laser guys With as many outdoorsmen that we have around here, I would like to have some Berets, Rangers, or Marines from my fine state as well.(If you think Billings is beautiful, try the northwest part of the state, smack dab in the middle of the Rocky Mountains, and home to Glacier National Park!) I have to say though, I have always wondered why Sci-Fi wasn't an update for Flash, or why Footloose wasn't an updated Grunt, or Bazooka for Zap, or Dial Tone for Breaker, Downtown for Short Fuze...etc. As much as I like all of those "new" characters I love updated versions of the originals. Many of the complaints I have seen directed at the filecards can be laid directly at the feet of Hasbro. Mr. Hama did write most of them, at least the first draft anyway, though Hasbro was notorious for editing them, or sometimes outright rewriting them. In the first 5 or so years of Joe Hama was the primary writer, and the cards hit the mark more often than not. Later hasbro took over full time. Hasbro had some weird ideas even early on though, such as making Zap a "bazooka" trooper, and naming their next anti-tank specialist "Bazooka". Hama argued with them over this several times exclaiming that "bazookas" hadn't been used since WW2. I wonder if we would have gotten "Zap:anti-armor specialist, or Missile Specialist-Code Name: Dragon or Javelin if Hama had his way. I think the rank issues are mostly misprints, and I know many times Hasbro decided what they wanted ranks to be with no thought to Hama's opinion. A lot of this info is available from places like Mark Bellomo's book "The Ultimate Guide to Gijoe" and from interviews with Hama that you can find around the Net'. As far as what certain Joes may or may not be, I find it fascinating how some Tankers can justify their thoughts on certain Joes' qualifications, and then say others don't share those qualifications when it is all conjecture. I agree with Troynos 100% that all Joes should be Rangers, Seals, Berets, Marine Recon, PJs, top Pilots etc. Personally, even with many filecards not explicitly stating it, I can't see how a unit that is either Hasbro's representation of Delta itself, or at least a Delta equivalent, if not a Delta superior force would have any members that were not the Best of the Best. Ever since I was a child it seemed obvious to me that there were not any regular ground pounders on the team.( I hate Greenshirts! Worst idea from the cartoon, they had regular troops helping all the time anyway, why would Joe have basic infantry?) They are all elite! So on the one hand, I think that there doesn't need to be any speculation about this issue on at least a basic level. I think the lowest rung of the Joe force is Ranger equivalent. On the other hand, if you want to go beyond that, and scrutinize the filecards, and Marvel run(DDP was a disgrace to the name Joe, it didn't even have the excuse of being a nationally televised childrens' cartoon. I won't say it was completely devoid of good ideas, but even those failed in execution.) I think it is obvious that Stalker is a Green Beret. No ifs and or buts. Look at his filecard, what would a man who was a LRRP, and Ranger qualified, who was top of his class in many areas, and who has a DUAL secondary of medic and interpreter, who went to Army intelligence school and language school, who is fluent in 5 languages, and who was the #1 pick on the Joe team (both Marvel and seemingly the new IDW) be doing "just" as a Ranger/LRRP? Between Nam/"Southeast Asia" he was probably even Delta, if there is one in the Joeverse, and if not, then he was actually first pick for Joe/Delta. I don't think it needs to specifically say Special Forces school in this case. The Green hat fits him too I agree with the evidence presented that I think Roadblock is a Green Beret, and as much as I would like more Marines on the team, it always seemed obvious to me that Bullhorn was FBI, even though they messed up his rank. Recondo is also a Beret, all of his missions indicate this, and combined with his stated training as a Recondo, I don't think it is a stretch. I am curious, how many Halo jumpers are there outside the Special Forces? According to wiki, all of the units that conduct Halo jumps in the US are at least accomplished, if not elite, and the "lowest standing" Army unit are Rangers therefore Ripcord has to be at LEAST a Ranger, though it doesn't say so on his filecard. It seems highly likely that Outback is a Beret as well. Between Chuckles' filecard hints, his Nam era spook outfit, and his introductory issue that I believe specifically mentions CIA, I think it is blatantly obvious that Chuckles is the Man from Uncle Now here is a Joe that has been getting dissed here a bit of late, which boggles my mind. My all time favorite: Snake-Eyes. First of all, as much as most of us like realism in Gijoe, the fact is, Gijoe is fantasy. Gijoe is the blockbuster version of Delta, sometimes that means they are beyond what Delta is, and sometimes they can't compare to Delta's real life exploits. That said, I would find it hard to believe that the most dangerous man in the most elite unit, if not the world, would be discharged because he can't talk. It has been well established that even working with a team, that Snake-Eyes CAN communicate with them, whether through sign language, military hand signals, writing, or morse code like devices. When he is alone, it isn't an issue at all. Also, he is not a superman, and never has been, he has been shot, wounded, captured, even defeated before. He is however a highly trained and dangerous individual. I have always scratched my head at the whole Ninja/commando debate. He is both, and always has been, even if his first fig didn't come with a sword. Read his V1 filecard, it was there from the beginning. So you say he was just a Ranger with Ninja training? No way Jose'. This man is as SF qualified as anyone. His language qualifications are unknown, though we might surmise he at least knows Japanese(even if he can't SPEAK it anymore) but he has been through Ranger and LRRP and Recondo school, AND he has had extensive training in mountaineering, underwater demolitions, jungle, desert, and arctic survival, and he is also an expert with all Nato and Warsaw small arms. I think he is the most highly trained man on the team. That is without mentioning his Ninja training. He is also a completely classified individual. Why would a LRRP who became a hermit after his family died be completely classified when no one else on the team is? There has to be a reason. I think it obvious that he has been doing "government work" for a while, be it before Asia, during Asia, or even between hermit and Joe. He might not be a Beret, though I think he is, but he is at least equivalent, even if it is Spook related. Also, his AWOL "issue", even as a kid I knew Hawk just wanted deniability, but that he trusted Snake-Eyes to do whatever needed doing, it was ALWAYS obvious. The Borovia incident is a prime example. This wasn't SE just running around willy nilly. That is why he was always cut some slack. Re-read those comics folks, it is all there. Thanks for listening(those that bothered to read this book;) ), and have a good night. |
03-02-2009, 08:30 AM | #3109 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Montana raised currently in Utah
Posts: 127
|
Montana represent.
Personally I don't know enough about how the armed forces are set up to offer an opinion on any of this but I find it completely fascinating. Keep it up. You know what I think would be interesting, a discussion of Corbra's set-up. The filecards on a lot of the Cobra troops makes them sound pretty damn tough. But maybe that's just me. :P
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Yeah my name is really dumb. |
03-02-2009, 09:19 AM | #3110 |
#voteblackjack
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northwood, NH
Posts: 35,747
|
I've always figured Cobra to have some people that are as skilled, if not more skilled, then the Joes. It makes the Joes mission seem tougher. It stands to reason that Cobra recruits from around the world and there are some Forces in the world that put ours to shame. Not all the Rangers are morally right, Im sure there have been some dishonorably discharged or that went bad, those would wind up with Cobra. All the mercs in the world, most of those would end up with Cobra.
So yeah, Cobra is tough. They aren't the stupid people shown in the cartoon. This would be an organization that is to be feared.
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Join the New England G.I. Joe Collector's Group: Battleforce New England Join the March of Cobra. Read the epic adventure on Kindle Worlds and visit the page to learn more. https://www.facebook.com/marchofcobra/ |
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