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02-10-2009, 02:58 AM | #2531 |
Cobra Soldier
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Idaho
Posts: 23
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This thread is a great read with a ton of info I had no clue about. Thanks to all who have contributed.
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02-10-2009, 03:18 AM | #2532 |
I Ride with Claymore!!!
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 6,821
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Thanks, TUG. Glad to see you on this thread.
Gentlemen, Let me also ask this, and then I'm going to bed: How do you use the October Guard, and how would you rate them as a team? Given their size - which is obviously small - how do you use them in your Joeverse? And I mean the toys. If you can only use the toys that Hasbro has produced... how do you fit them into your Joeverse? I have every October Guard figure ever produced, but that is still not a lot of characters/figures. They are too small to pose a serious threat to G.I. Joe or Cobra. However, I consider them to be a very proficient, very tough unit. To me, it makes a lot of sense to use them as Intel Operatives for Russia, and they're on par with Python Patrol or Tiger Force, or maybe even The Plague or Night Force. What do y'all think?
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Why aren't there more Joes from the Deep South? And would it kill Hasbro to give us a Marine Corps Officer? |
02-10-2009, 09:29 AM | #2533 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hope, ME
Posts: 4,744
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Quote:
Besides that, if you are going to pick 12 soldiers - and only 12 soldiers - maybe we should choose them on the merits of their qualifications and not based on a popularity contest. It's the same Reason it makes so little sense to have guys like Green Arrow and Batman on the Justice Leage: they're on the team because of the fans, not because it makes sense. And that may be OK in the DCU, but G.I. Joeverse is supposed to be a little more realistic.
Green Arrow is a guy with a bow and arrow. He doesn't always make as much sense. GI Joe makes much more sense as a small special ops team than as a response to a global army of Cobras, and that's how I tend to think of them. I was up in New York for the Comic Con since the middle of last week - you guys have also been talking about a lot of figures and comics that I don't have, so I can't really chime in much. I'm here, though.
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02-10-2009, 09:31 AM | #2534 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hope, ME
Posts: 4,744
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Quote:
Gentlemen,
Let me also ask this, and then I'm going to bed: How do you use the October Guard, and how would you rate them as a team? Given their size - which is obviously small - how do you use them in your Joeverse? And I mean the toys. If you can only use the toys that Hasbro has produced... how do you fit them into your Joeverse? Quote:
I have every October Guard figure ever produced, but that is still not a lot of characters/figures. They are too small to pose a serious threat to G.I. Joe or Cobra. However, I consider them to be a very proficient, very tough unit. To me, it makes a lot of sense to use them as Intel Operatives for Russia, and they're on par with Python Patrol or Tiger Force, or maybe even The Plague or Night Force.
What do y'all think?
__________________
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02-10-2009, 10:29 AM | #2535 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
I think it's the best thread on the whole site, but that's my rather biased opinion. The File cards serve as a jumping off point, but this thread has sort of become a discussion area of all issues of continuity and character biographies and military training and anything else we want to discuss that's Joe related. I think of it almost like a virtual club house for the few of us regulars who are on here a lot. Don't get me wrong, we're glad for anybody to stop by.
I can only speak for myself, but I have found that there are a lot of different kinds of collectors. Some Joe fans liked the toys. Some liked the Cartoon. Some liked the Comic. Some just like doing customs. Some are younger and don't remember the old stuff... etc, etc. But there are some of us older fans who are really intrigued by the continuity and who kept up with all of it - the toys, the comic, the cartoons: all of it - and we think G.I. Joe is more fun when the characters have a little substance. Continuity means a lot to us. I think that's what this thread means to me. It makes my Joe collection a lot more fun because it gives the characters substance and depth. And I'm afforded an opportunity to discuss my childhood passion with a group of guys that know a heck of a lot about these characters and their history, and they are kind enough to let me contribute. There have been a few members of this site, who have not liked this thread when they have checked it out. Some have poked fun at it. Some have been offensive. I must take responsibility for myself and admit that I have, at times, not been as friendly as I should have been in response. I'm also just a firm believer that on this site, if a thread doesn't interest me, I should probably just find one that does, and let people enjoy the threads to which they're posting. I guess I'm pretty biased. I consider the regulars on this thread to be my friends; I get mad when a visitor is rude. And I know we've all put forth a great deal of thought and effort into building this thread up. There's a lot of great insight about G.I. Joe in the preceding 250+ pages. And to be honest, there's no other group of Joe fans whose opinions I value more than the guys who regularly post to this thread. We don't always agree, but I usually learn something I didn't know before. And for a thread about a bunch of toys, I think that's really something. Knowing is half the battle. Yo Joe. |
02-10-2009, 10:47 AM | #2536 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Quote:
Hey fellas,
Here's a question I have: What do we know about the history of the "Red Shadows"? I mean more than what DDP did with them. Didn't they originate with Action Force in Britain? Does anyone know the deal with that? Loose Cannon, you usually know a lot about the international Joe stuff. Do you know anything about this? He's got every single issue online and it was a weekly comic! Losts of fun reading. It started like any other classic morally corrupt individual trying to take over the world. I'm not sure if the toy line came first or the comic. It originated at about the same time as the GIJoe universe. Baron Ironblood and his henchmen were much the same as Cobra. I think his Red Shadow soldiers were suppose to be clones. He was somehow able to generate and endless supply. Where it really gets messed up is when the action force line ends and becomes GIJoe. Baron Ironblood kills everyone in the Red Shadows to hide his own disappearance and then reemerges as Cobra Commander. Jackel, Who is just a repainted Destro, now becomes Destro, and Storm Shadow and Firefly start appearing. I guess it must have been around 84 and the toyline had become all Hasbro mold based. So a few of those original characters had a pretty good history before they switch everything over. Gung-Ho is Gaucho, Snake-Eyes is actually called Stalker, Stalker is called Jammer. And half these guys were from some other European Country. What DDP did is they took the name Red Shadows, and although it is never confirmed, they took the Black Major Character and said he's Wilder Vaughn. I think that is the only connection. The Black Major was Baron Ironblood's brainwashed ex-SAS right hand man. I'm sure there are those Action Force fans who hated the shift to GIJoe. It's pretty poorly done, and after a while you just accept it. |
02-10-2009, 11:05 AM | #2537 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,157
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Quote:
Also, has anyone heard from Tanksmasher lately?
How about Fogger1138 or Cold Slither? I haven't seen those guys on here in a long while. I miss hearing from them; those are some smart guys. Anyone heard from Skyhawk? He's a good tanker. Haven't heard from Tall Creeper in a while either. Steinberg's another guy that is really good to have around. We should PM those guys and check on them. Hope they're OK. I also just want to say that I'm glad Lister is a regular contributer to this thread as well. His posts are well written and well thought out. He's a good tanker to have on this thread and I'm sorry that he and I had some arguments earlier. I genuinely value your insights, Lister, and I look forward to your posts. Allright, love-fest over, let's talk about some Joes. Just kidding. |
02-10-2009, 11:11 AM | #2538 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hope, ME
Posts: 4,744
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Quote:
Quote:
One of the things I like about this thread is that, even though I've been a Joe fan since 1982, there have been years when I wasn't following the figures or comics as closely, and this thread gives me a little insight to elements of the mythos that I missed out on. Alot of the guys on here, particularly you (Oliver), Troynos, and Loose Cannon are way more well-versed in some of those elements than me. So I enjoy reading all your posts.
Allright, love-fest over, let's talk about some Joes. Just kidding.
__________________
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02-10-2009, 11:26 AM | #2539 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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[QUOTE=oliverbox;557848]
Of all the characters, I think Duke and Flint are the hardest to write well. They are so much alike, and to differentiate between the two, the writers start to invent weird character flaws. Jerwa went so far as to have Flint say to Duke and General Hawk and General Rey that he "wasn't really cut out to be a leader". That's the biggest crop of Bull crap I've ever heard. By the way, that's got to be the gayest page in a Joe comic I've ever read. The four of them stand around talking about their feelings over coffee; It was like a comic book version of "The View". I kept waiting for Duke to ask Hawk what kind of Maxi Pads he would recommend. It was ridiculous. The real problem, in my opinion, is that the writers have NO idea what a First Sergeant and a Warrant Officer do. They have no idea how an Airborne Ranger First Sergeant and a Special Forces Warrant Officer behave. Certainly we're dealing with individuals, but there are also personality types that fit together in a unit. Duke needs to be more about action, and regulations, and watching over his soldiers. He needs to be a Sergeant. He needs to be what every guy who has ever been in uniform thinks of, when he thinks of an excellent First Sergeant. I called my old First Sergeant today and we talked for 45 minutes. When I hung up, I thought to myself, "That guy would eat Duke for breakfast." That's a problem. Anybody who has ever dealt with anyone from Special Forces knows that they are a different breed. And any soldier who has ever had any dealing with a Warrant Officer knows that they are a special part of the Army. Flint should be the best of both worlds, and that would make him a very unique individual - but a leader for certain. He should be the Ying to Duke's Yang, instead of a second fiddle Duke with different clothes, dark hair, and a beret. I think if they ever figured out that dynamic, and they really wrote it in a way that was realistic and believable, the rest of the team would almost fall into place. Duke and Flint are the centre, even more that Hawk, or Snake-Eyes, or Stalker. Duke and Flint, by virtue of their positions, are the heart and soul of the team, but if the center cannot hold.../QUOTE] I think you're right on point on all this. The Maxipad thing was sadly true. You've made me rethink my Duke and Flint Promotions. Guys like Duke and Flint although not the overall leaders of the Battalion, or whatever size GIJoe really is, would be very much involved in all the actual missions. They would be the center of the stories we would want to read. I mean nobody cares how many personnel actions Col Courage has to sign in a week, but we do care how many bullets Gung-Ho took to the leg. I don't think the guys at DDP knew how the military functions at all. Hama was good at keeping the realness there. Which is why the comic was always the Bible sort of speak. Quick Kick did not come off the set for a soft drink commercial and get added to the team. But Hawk answered to Flagg, who answered to Austin. I think the size of the Joe Force, not including pilots, and tech guys, would need to be at least 100 men. Basically a company of super trained individuals, and a battalion of support people. Like a Special Forces Company. So Six Squads with 6 COs(Major, Capt, Lt); 6XOs(WO2-4); and 6 1stSgts. With an overall Sgt Major who would outrank Duke, but wouldn't participate on missions, yet can make Duke, Beachhead, Stalker and Sgt. Slaughter drop and give him 20. like a R. Lee Ermy or the guy in "We Were Soldiers." Any less is almost not enough to fight a global war on terror. Really even this wouldn't be enough. But to write a comic about 30,000 men would be impossible. I like how the new comic is going in this regard. It seems like Stalker and Duke are actually equals. Scarlett's position is still a mystery. |
02-10-2009, 11:26 AM | #2540 |
disgruntled goat
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NYS- Finger Lakes
Posts: 2,110
|
Quote:
I think it's the best thread on the whole site, but that's my rather biased opinion. The File cards serve as a jumping off point, but this thread has sort of become a discussion area of all issues of continuity and character biographies and military training and anything else we want to discuss that's Joe related. I think of it almost like a virtual club house for the few of us regulars who are on here a lot. Don't get me wrong, we're glad for anybody to stop by.
I think that's what this thread means to me. It makes my Joe collection a lot more fun because it gives the characters substance and depth. And I'm afforded an opportunity to discuss my childhood passion with a group of guys that know a heck of a lot about these characters and their history, and they are kind enough to let me contribute. There have been a few members of this site, who have not liked this thread when they have checked it out. Some have poked fun at it. Some have been offensive. I'm also just a firm believer that on this site, if a thread doesn't interest me, I should probably just find one that does, and let people enjoy the threads to which they're posting. I guess I'm pretty biased. I consider the regulars on this thread to be my friends; I get mad when a visitor is rude. And I know we've all put forth a great deal of thought and effort into building this thread up. There's a lot of great insight about G.I. Joe in the preceding 250+ pages. And to be honest, there's no other group of Joe fans whose opinions I value more than the guys who regularly post to this thread. We don't always agree, but I usually learn something I didn't know before. And for a thread about a bunch of toys, I think that's really something. Knowing is half the battle. Yo Joe. I couldn't agree more. This is definitely the best thread on this forum and the first one i check for updates. You & Troynos and the other regulars you mentioned really know your stuff and present some very well thought out views. I have felt welcome enough to chime in with my two cents on occassion and was never made to feel stupid or chastised for expressing my opinion. Here's hoping we keep it going for another 250 pages and beyond Yo Joe! |
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