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11-27-2019, 12:40 PM | #23261 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toxo-Zombie Land
Posts: 1,728
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Quote:
Snake Eyes v.3 file card clearly states that he was trained by MACV-SOG in Nha Trang before joining his LRRP team. (Stalker says he met Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow momentarily in Saigon, before training, in Jan. 30, 1968.) Sometime after his training, Snake Eyes served a full tour with Storm Shadow. (1972) After that, Snake Eyes served another half tour (6 months) with Stalker and Storm Shadow (1973). At one point, three of their members were killed or captured by the Viet Cong. Snake Eyes was injured and sent home, only to find his family had died. Wade Collins says this all took place 2 years before the end of the war in 1975. (He was a POW for 2 years: 1973-1975, one assumes.) An aside, which many believe Dr. Venom to have misinterpreted: Snake Eyes rode the last helicopter out of Saigon on April 30th, 1975. Last edited by seaneley; 11-27-2019 at 01:00 PM.. |
11-27-2019, 01:21 PM | #23262 |
just a Marine
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: central PA
Posts: 1,681
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It seems likely that after the ambush, Snake Eyes would have had to spend some serious time in recovery from his wounds. It seems unlikely he would be back up and operating a few weeks after his injuries.
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11-27-2019, 01:37 PM | #23263 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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Quote:
Great. Now, I'm confused. Is Stalker a 75th Ranger, or a Ranger-Qualified Green Beret?
Snake Eyes v.3 file card clearly states that he was trained by MACV-SOG in Nha Trang before joining his LRRP team. (Stalker says he met Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow momentarily in Saigon, before training, in Jan. 30, 1968.) Sometime after his training, Snake Eyes served a full tour with Storm Shadow. (1972) After that, Snake Eyes served another half tour (6 months) with Stalker and Storm Shadow (1973). At one point, three of their members were killed or captured by the Viet Cong. Snake Eyes was injured and sent home, only to find his family had died. Wade Collins says this all took place 2 years before the end of the war in 1975. (He was a POW for 2 years: 1973-1975, one assumes.) An aside, which many believe Dr. Venom to have misinterpreted: Snake Eyes rode the last helicopter out of Saigon on April 30th, 1975. Recondo School was run by the 5th Special Forces Group, which was subordinate to MACV, the parent command of all units . MACVSOG was a subordinate command of MACV. Last edited by Tanksmasher; 11-27-2019 at 01:48 PM.. |
11-27-2019, 01:46 PM | #23264 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
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Quote:
That's the part that requires some explanation. The narrative of the infamous ambush describes a six-man long range recon patrol made up of U.S. soldiers, no indigenous troops. This was the standard organization for these units around that time. What started out as provisional LRRP platoons, running recon for divisions and separate brigades, later became LRP companies in late 1967 and then Ranger companies in 1969.
The Recon Teams (RT) operating under SOG, however, were not referred to as LRRP or LRP to my knowledge, even though missions were very similar. The teams were led by three U.S. Special Forces sergeants, the One-Zero (team leader), One-One (assistant team leader) and One-Two (radio operator). The rest of the team consisted of 3-9 indigenous soldiers, such as the Montagnard, known as Zero-One, Zero-Two, and so on. Everything seems to indicate that Stalker's team was a typical LRRP or LRP unit, except for the fact that they received orders to report to MACVSOG in Saigon. Of course, the Special Forces soldiers working for SOG didn't report to the main HQ in Saigon. They reported to one of three forward operating bases knowns as CCN (Command & Control North), CCS (...South), and CCC (...Central). So the question is, why did these three receive orders to report to MACVSOG HQ in Saigon? Perhaps one of their missions became entangled with that of SOG's recon teams. Perhaps they strayed over the border where they were not authorized, unlike SOG units. Perhaps they uncovered some evidence or intelligence that was deemed important by HQ. There are a lot of ideas or explanations that you could pursue, but whatever the reason, I used this bit of narrative to open Snake Eye's pathway to SOG after returning home to discover his family had perished. From other narratives we know that SE spent three years in Japan and three years in the High Sierras after the war and before joining GI Joe, but GI Joe wasn't active until 1982 or a year or so earlier. (After all, we know that SE received his facial injuries in a helicopter accident prior to Joe operations in 1982). Like Delta Force, which was established in late 1977 and became active in 1979, GI Joe most likely went through a "stand up" training period of a few years. I like to envision the formation of GI Joe as a response to Operation Eagle Claw of 1980--it was stood up to take on what Delta Force failed to do. But even if GI Joe was established as early as 1977, around the same time as Delta Force, and SE spent six years out of service before joining GI Joe, that places his trip to Japan in 1971 and raises the question: what was he doing after his recovery form the ambush of 1968 and before 1971? My answer: SOG. Thus, the classified file on him. I figure that with the loss of his family, he felt compelled to return to the only family he had left--his brothers back in Vietnam, so he re-enlisted, joined Special Forces, and ran clandestine missions for one of the three FOBs under SOG. As for Stalker and others, I played with the idea of having them do the same, but haven't committed to the idea yet. Quote:
Great. Now, I'm confused. Is Stalker a 75th Ranger, or a Ranger-Qualified Green Beret?
Snake Eyes v.3 file card clearly states that he was trained by MACV-SOG in Nha Trang before joining his LRRP team. (Stalker says he met Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow momentarily in Saigon, before training, in Jan. 30, 1968.) Sometime after his training, Snake Eyes served a full tour with Storm Shadow. (1972) After that, Snake Eyes served another half tour (6 months) with Stalker and Storm Shadow (1973). At one point, three of their members were killed or captured by the Viet Cong. Snake Eyes was injured and sent home, only to find his family had died. Wade Collins says this all took place 2 years before the end of the war in 1975. (He was a POW for 2 years: 1973-1975, one assumes.) An aside, which many believe Dr. Venom to have misinterpreted: Snake Eyes rode the last helicopter out of Saigon on April 30th, 1975. I think 1973 was when U.S forces fully withdrew so when Wade says "end of the war" he may have meant "end of U.S involvement with the war". Still that would place the ambush in 1971 and not '68 though. Regarding Stalker I think it is up to the individual to go with whatever they feel comfortable. He has Infantry, Medic, Interpreter, Intelligence and then later an EOD expert. I think Vietnam-era Stalker could be a LRRP/Ranger with most of the first set of skills (I am ignoring this EOD in any case) except for medic which is hard to justify. Modern era Stalker would almost have to have gone Special Forces for these set of skills. If Dr. Venom is correct maybe Snake-Eyes was still working under MACV-SOG till 1975. Although officially MACV-SOG ceased operations a few years earlier maybe small elements of it were still working unofficially (especially with the CIA being involved)? Or maybe SE went to work for the CIA? In that case after 1975 we are looking at three years in Japan then three years at his cabin which brings us to 1981 when the Joes started up and would be sometime after he got injured in the helicopter accident before 1982. Agreed. Also I am having a difficult time in my fanfic on how SE would be allowed back in the military for having lost the ability to speak later on. I am not a fan of the "lone-wolf Joe member sent on covert operations". What about the times he is called upon to operate with the rest of the team in an assault or something? He wouldn't be able to communicate effectively with the rest of the team for things such as room clearing. |
11-27-2019, 02:02 PM | #23265 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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Wade’s statement of “two years, I spent in the hole” is problematic, but perhaps he was just referring to a particular POW camp, the first of several, that he endured. Either way, Operation Homecoming began in February 1973, which is the year I presume Wade was released.
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11-28-2019, 12:43 PM | #23266 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toxo-Zombie Land
Posts: 1,728
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Dang. You're all right! How did I mess that up? I Googled "last helicopter out of Saigon" and assumed that's when the war ended...
On that note: Will someone please tell me what the hell that gun is that Spearhead is carrying??? |
11-28-2019, 03:17 PM | #23267 |
Commando
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Britain
Posts: 3,827
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well, it looks kinda like an M16 with a bayonet and a huge supressor, but the double magazine/receiver thing is baffling. I just chalk it off as a fictional weapon like the Viper's rifle, the weird thing Recoil comes with and that weird triangular gun with the scope Tomax/Xamot and gods know who else had.
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11-28-2019, 03:40 PM | #23268 |
Mass Nerderer
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slitherin' around the tank- It's cool, though, 'cause I'm being "watched"
Posts: 9,101
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It's a very common misconception, even among vets of that era. I've heard the term stolen valor applied to someone very close to me in regards to this. Thankfully the information is mostly readily available online, and generally embarrassed apologies ensue.
__________________
I NEED TOYS DAMMIT!!! |
11-29-2019, 03:46 PM | #23269 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toxo-Zombie Land
Posts: 1,728
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Hey. Anybody know what the symbol is on the right sleeve of Low-Light v.3? It kind of looks like a lightning bolt.
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11-29-2019, 03:48 PM | #23270 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,236
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Quote:
I've never seen anything like it. It may be a fictional unit. Last edited by Tanksmasher; 11-29-2019 at 03:54 PM.. |
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