[seaneley]

Do the schools they attend have anything to do with what unit they serve with? I think Gung-Ho attended Lejeune, or something like that.

[john shaft]

I would think the schools they attend have more to do with their MOS and the type of unit they are in.

A Force Recon Marine would have MFF, Scout-Sniper, CQB, and other schools open to them moreso than a standard Infantry Marine. I would also think MARSOC Marines would be at the top of the waiting list for certain schools along with Force Recon.

I made Gung-Ho a Force Recon Marine to justify that he attended MFF school before joining the Joes. I am attempting to do that with most of my Joes....have their skills in place before joining the unit. If they were part of a SF or SOF unit beforehand (hence the case with most of the Original 13 in the 75th) then that greatly increases their chance of having more advanced training ahead of time. If Hawk was trying to stand up a new unit with the other 12 Joes he would not have time to send them to something even as basic as Airborne School for static-line training. Maybe down the road as the unit became larger he could spare a few individuals to go off to training but probably not at the get-go.

[hardcorps]

Quote:

Originally Posted by john shaft

I would think the schools they attend have more to do with their MOS and the type of unit they are in.

A Force Recon Marine would have MFF, Scout-Sniper, CQB, and other schools open to them moreso than a standard Infantry Marine. I would also think MARSOC Marines would be at the top of the waiting list for certain schools along with Force Recon.

I made Gung-Ho a Force Recon Marine to justify that he attended MFF school before joining the Joes. I am attempting to do that with most of my Joes....have their skills in place before joining the unit. If they were part of a SF or SOF unit beforehand (hence the case with most of the Original 13 in the 75th) then that greatly increases their chance of having more advanced training ahead of time. If Hawk was trying to stand up a new unit with the other 12 Joes he would not have time to send them to something even as basic as Airborne School for static-line training. Maybe down the road as the unit became larger he could spare a few individuals to go off to training but probably not at the get-go.

Off the top of my head, the only way I could see a Marine going to MFF is being part of MarSoc or Force Recon.

Lejeune is Camp Lejeune which is one of the three big USMC bases, there are a lot of schools at all these bases, but many Marines think of Lejeune as the place "real" Marines get stationed, mostly because it is just a miserable swampy backwater. Pendleton in California has temperate weather and beaches with San Diego to the south and LA to the north. Lejeune has swamps, swamps to the south, and more swamps to the north. Oh, and sand fleas and humidity. GH could have been with Force Recon (II MEF) at Lejeune or one of many infantry battalions.

I also sort of assumed all the joes were airborne qualified before reporting. The US Army sends a lot of soldiers to airborne school that don't really "need" it, and all the elite Army units are typically airborne qualified.

In my joe verse, a lot of the joes were SF-Breaker, Stalker (his OG figure has a green beret fercrisakes)RnR (his sideshow collectibles figure has a green beanie). Zap is Sapper qualified, Clutch is Delta, Grunt and Short Fuze are 82nd Airborne. Flash was initially 82nd but seconded to DARPA, Grand Slam 82nd with Div Arty. Scarlett and Hawk are ISA. Steeler is the odd man out. There is no reason for him to be Airborne qualified and as heavy armor, chances are he would not end up in an airborne unit.

[seaneley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardcorps

...RnR (his Sideshow Collectibles figure has a green beanie)...

Is the beret flash on that Rock 'n Roll action figure the one for the 4th Brigade Combat Team (Airborne), 25th Infantry Division (25th ID)?

[Tanksmasher]

Quote:

Originally Posted by john shaft

After reading that it looks like an O-6 is in command of an aircraft carrier so no way Keel-Haul is an O-9. It does say an aircraft carrier is commanded by an "aviation community captain" so Keel-Haul would fit that bill. Destroyers are commanded by O-5's so I could make him that (to fit with an O-5 in a Squadron Commander billet). However it does indicate that a destroyer is commanded by a Commander in the surface community so he would not fit the bill in that respect.

So unless I make the Maritime Mobility Squadron commander billet fillable by an O-6 (whereas the unit commander is an O-6) I don't think I can make Keel-Haul work in my unit.

While the commanding officer of a carrier is an O-6, the commander of the Carrier Strike Group is an O-7 or O-8 and commands the CSG from the carrier. As an O-9 Keel-Haul could command a numbered fleet or large task force, but he could also serve as a Special Operations Joint Task Force Commander (SOJTFC) or a Joint Force Special Operations Component Commander (JFSOCC). I've previously used him as the Vice Commander of my Joe's special operations headquarters.

[Turtle Master]

As a non-military person I really like informed discussion and am learning a lot - please keep this thread going!

[john shaft]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hardcorps

Off the top of my head, the only way I could see a Marine going to MFF is being part of MarSoc or Force Recon.

Lejeune is Camp Lejeune which is one of the three big USMC bases, there are a lot of schools at all these bases, but many Marines think of Lejeune as the place "real" Marines get stationed, mostly because it is just a miserable swampy backwater. Pendleton in California has temperate weather and beaches with San Diego to the south and LA to the north. Lejeune has swamps, swamps to the south, and more swamps to the north. Oh, and sand fleas and humidity. GH could have been with Force Recon (II MEF) at Lejeune or one of many infantry battalions.

I also sort of assumed all the joes were airborne qualified before reporting. The US Army sends a lot of soldiers to airborne school that don't really "need" it, and all the elite Army units are typically airborne qualified.

In my joe verse, a lot of the joes were SF-Breaker, Stalker (his OG figure has a green beret fercrisakes)RnR (his sideshow collectibles figure has a green beanie). Zap is Sapper qualified, Clutch is Delta, Grunt and Short Fuze are 82nd Airborne. Flash was initially 82nd but seconded to DARPA, Grand Slam 82nd with Div Arty. Scarlett and Hawk are ISA. Steeler is the odd man out. There is no reason for him to be Airborne qualified and as heavy armor, chances are he would not end up in an airborne unit.

In regards to Steeler he could also have served in a cavalry unit. I imagine some of their members attend airborne school (just a guess, will need to look into it).

Just curious how you came up with Clutch being a former member of Delta?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle Master

As a non-military person I really like informed discussion and am learning a lot - please keep this thread going!

If you have the time you may want to start reading this thread from the beginning. I did and it took me a few months but there is a ton of info in here.

[Tyroc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seaneley

Okay, Stalker and Snake Eyes were with the 75th Rangers, but what units did the other 11 original JOEs conceivably come from?

I think there is an inherent danger in trying to pigeon hole which units the classic Joes came from. The line was conceived at a time when there wasn't as much freedom of information as there is now.

Rudat came from a Marine family background and is an avid civil war buff so most of the design elements have bits of everything thrown in; Both Recondo and Duke seem to have the Navy / Marine parachute insignia on his chest for example.

Also, Hama was writing the filecards from his knowledge of the military from when he served so all the MOS info can be confusing. For example; Duke and Stalker both have an MOS of Infantry because that's what SF personnel had as their MOS during the Vietnam era. The SF career field wasn't formalized till later.

That said, there was some discussion way back when, where Zuludelta (we miss you Z!) pointed out that the designers had access to US military installations and well this is what he said;

"I've always wondered if the Rudat-era Joe toy designers (1982 to 1987) and maybe even Larry Hama consciously took some inspiration from the now-inactive US Army 9th Infantry Division in their work for GI Joe. As Rudat recounted, he and other GI Joe designers were occasionally able to visit military installations for their research for toy designs (for instance, he and his design team actually toured a working, active-duty aircraft carrier compiling references for the USS Flagg).

Back in the late 1970s and early 1980s, the 9th Infantry Division was supposed to be a core part of the "Rapid Deployment Joint Task Force" (what can be described as a precursor/early parallel to today's USCENTCOM and to some degree, the modern USSOCOM). The 9th Infantry Division was also involved in testing "motorized infantry" tactics (as opposed to the usual mechanized infantry), and as such, certain 9th ID units were equipped with many prototype/experimental vehicles that were never adopted on a wide-scale. They were the primary unit to test the various HMMWV prototypes, for instance:

• FMC XR311: generally acknowledged by the Joe fan community as the inspiration for the VAMP, although some of the prototypes below seem like they might have made an impression on the VAMP toy designers as well."

I think this is a great explanation and it means that the early Joes could have conceivably been drawn from the following units which made up the USRDF;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_...int_Task_Force

[Tyroc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle Master

As a non-military person I really like informed discussion and am learning a lot - please keep this thread going!

Welcome to the thread

[seaneley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seaneley

Is the beret flash on that (12" Sideshow Collectibles) Rock 'n Roll action figure the one for the 4th Brigade Combat Team (Airborne), 25th Infantry Division (25th ID)?

Anyone else know this? The beret flash is red on top and black (blue?) on the bottom, separated by a diagonal lightning symbol...