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03-13-2018, 08:47 AM | #22571 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
|
Speaking of Vipers how does everyone else view the Techno-Viper? It describes them as both repairers and combat engineers. Real life combat engineers repair things such as bridges but there are dedicated repairers for equipment such as tanks. I was thinking of making Techno-Vipers the equivalent of US Army Mechanical Maintenance and Ordnance Branch Career Fields while Terra-Vipers are the actual "combat engineers" of Cobra.
Also in regards to Air-Vipers they obviously need people to maintain the aircraft and other such jobs. Not everyone can be a pilot. Who performs these jobs? This was brought up in regards to the Navy Cobras a few pages back. As the saying goes "amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics". Yes logistics action figure may make for "boring" figures but every military needs them and Cobra would be no exception. So I have the "starter" Cobra career types broken down into: Cobra Troopers (no military training) Vipers (former military and police) Air-Vipers (former military) Crimson Guards (law and accounting graduates) Now this is not to say that a Cobra Trooper could never progress to a CG. I am sure once they are in Cobra for several years, prove themselves with hard work, then maybe go to college on the C.I. Bill (ha!) they could potentially make their way to being a CG. |
03-13-2018, 08:52 AM | #22572 |
Hog Driver
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 12,235
|
I use the weapon specially vipers in a similar fashion except I put them in a heavy weapons platooon. SAW Vipers are attached from a heavy machine gun squad to a Viper rifle platoon. FRAG Vipers make up a heavy grenadier squad. HEAT Vipers are the antiarmor squad and so on. A standard rifle squad has light machine guns and grenade launchers operated by standard Vipers but the heavier weaponry is provided by these specialists. Laser Vipers act as forward observers for laser targeting. Rock and Jungle and Desert and other environmental Vipers are Special Operations Forces who train for specific regional missions. Toxo, Hazard, Data, Techno and other similar Vipers play combat support roles just like CBRN, Signals, Engineers and other MOSs in the Army. The one type of Viper that we’re missing is a mortar Viper. WORMS are the heavy artillery but I had to create a Viper for the mortar role.
Last edited by Tanksmasher; 03-13-2018 at 09:00 AM.. |
03-13-2018, 09:06 AM | #22573 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
I agree about the environment specific Vipers, and them having multiple roles, like a Jungle-medi-Viper. But I think when you join, Range, Alley, Jungle, Rock, or Elite you leave any weapons unit affiliations behind. That being said, my scenario as these being feeder units wouldn't preclude any individual from trying out for one of the more elite units. I bet it is a lot of sink or swim moments for Cobra
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. Last edited by Loose Cannon; 03-13-2018 at 09:14 AM.. |
03-13-2018, 03:44 PM | #22574 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
Quote:
I use the weapon specially vipers in a similar fashion except I put them in a heavy weapons platooon. SAW Vipers are attached from a heavy machine gun squad to a Viper rifle platoon. FRAG Vipers make up a heavy grenadier squad. HEAT Vipers are the antiarmor squad and so on. A standard rifle squad has light machine guns and grenade launchers operated by standard Vipers but the heavier weaponry is provided by these specialists. Laser Vipers act as forward observers for laser targeting. Rock and Jungle and Desert and other environmental Vipers are Special Operations Forces who train for specific regional missions. Toxo, Hazard, Data, Techno and other similar Vipers play combat support roles just like CBRN, Signals, Engineers and other MOSs in the Army. The one type of Viper that we’re missing is a mortar Viper. WORMS are the heavy artillery but I had to create a Viper for the mortar role.
I really like the idea of a Heavy Weapons Team at the Company level. Having the HEAT and SAW and FRAG mixed in with a standard squad still bothers me for the fact they are there own units, but they fit in there nicely too. Not sure which way to go? I was thinking the same thing about the non-existent Mortar-Viper. Maybe the HEAT vipers can have that role? What about the CLAWS?
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-13-2018, 03:55 PM | #22575 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
|
Quote:
Speaking of Vipers how does everyone else view the Techno-Viper? It describes them as both repairers and combat engineers. Real life combat engineers repair things such as bridges but there are dedicated repairers for equipment such as tanks. I was thinking of making Techno-Vipers the equivalent of US Army Mechanical Maintenance and Ordnance Branch Career Fields while Terra-Vipers are the actual "combat engineers" of Cobra.
Also in regards to Air-Vipers they obviously need people to maintain the aircraft and other such jobs. Not everyone can be a pilot. Who performs these jobs? This was brought up in regards to the Navy Cobras a few pages back. As the saying goes "amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics". Yes logistics action figure may make for "boring" figures but every military needs them and Cobra would be no exception. So I have the "starter" Cobra career types broken down into: Cobra Troopers (no military training) Vipers (former military and police) Air-Vipers (former military) Crimson Guards (law and accounting graduates) Now this is not to say that a Cobra Trooper could never progress to a CG. I am sure once they are in Cobra for several years, prove themselves with hard work, then maybe go to college on the C.I. Bill (ha!) they could potentially make their way to being a CG.
__________________
Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-13-2018, 07:21 PM | #22576 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toxo-Zombie Land
Posts: 1,728
|
Quote:
Techno-Vipers are the tank (and other vehicle) fixers. I don't know why Hama always used them as R&D in the comics when he wrote the file card! Again, they would be very useful in a 3rd World country while fighting a disorganized local government. Even if the JOEs showed up, the good guys would be at a disadvantage being away from home and perhaps in-country illegally. However, no way the Techno-Vipers are fixing tanks under battle field conditions in downtown USA, London or Tokyo. They wouldn't even make it to the disabled vehicle. I see the Cyber-Vipers as more the R&D men, and better suited to fill the roles that Hama had the Techno-Vipers fill in the comics. Of course, they were late-comers to the toy line... |
03-14-2018, 07:19 AM | #22577 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
|
Quote:
I really like the idea of a Heavy Weapons Team at the Company level. Having the HEAT and SAW and FRAG mixed in with a standard squad still bothers me for the fact they are there own units, but they fit in there nicely too. Not sure which way to go?
I was thinking the same thing about the non-existent Mortar-Viper. Maybe the HEAT vipers can have that role? What about the CLAWS? HEAT Vipers and Claws are more direct-fire specialists versus indirect fire. Cobra definitely needs an indirect-fire specialist that focuses on mortars versus the heavier artillery. On a side note of Claws I was making them the anti-armor specialists for the Cobra Trooper branch. They would progress from a Cobra Trooper-->Cobra Bazooka Trooper--Claws. I didn't see anywhere on the file card (IIRC) to indicate they were Vipers. Since Vipers already have their HEAT and Fast Blast Vipers I figured the Troopers needed their own set of anti-armor specialists. Not sure which Viper would be more "advanced" though between the HEAT and Fast Blast. Both seem to serve the same role. |
03-14-2018, 07:19 PM | #22578 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,026
|
It's interesting you guys are talking about Vipers, especially mentioning the Air-Vipers.
On the Customs Forum, user HissHissFangFan has made some Cobras which he has termed "anti-Joes" like a Cobra equivalent to Joe characters - which is what I think Hasbro was going after later in the 80s/early 90s of the run. So, I got to listing various Vipers and looking through File Cards for duplicate types of Cobra characters, which brings me to the Air-Viper. Did you know the Air-Viper is first mentioned in 1986 in the Strato-Viper's file card, but it wasn't until like 2003 that they ever made an Air-Viper action figure. Unless you figure that Air-Vipers and Strato-Vipers wore the same uniform, which wouldn't be a stretch since the ROC Night Raven Pilot is called an Air-Viper. I've come up with a list of "Vipers" (not conclusive or exclusively based upon Hasbro's action figures) where I combine certain "Functions" or MOS: Viper - Cobra Infantry (Anti-Grunt) Viper Officer - Cobra Infantry Officer (Anti-Falcon?) Track Viper - HISS Tank Driver (Anti-Steeler) Tele-Viper - Communications (Anti-Breaker) HEAT-Viper - Bazooka Trooper (Anti-Zap) Frag-Viper - Mortar/Grenadier Trooper (Anti-Short Fuse) Air-Viper - Cobra Air Trooper/Pilot (Anti-Ace) Saw-Viper - Heavy Machine Gunner (Anti-Rock n Roll/Roadblock) Flak-Viper - Anti-Aircraft Trooper (Anti-Grand Slam) Toxo-Viper - CBRN Trooper (Anti-Airtight) Pit-Viper - Stealth Trooper (Anti-Stalker/Snake Eyes) Techno-Viper - Cobra Technician Motor-Viper - Assault Vehicle Driver (Stinger, etc.) (Anti-Clutch/Crankcase) Medi-Viper - Medi (Doc) Night-Viper - Marksman (Anti-Lowlight Cyber-Viper - Computer Warfare (Anti-Mainframe) That's as far as I got, but I think this would be a cool way of fleshing out MOS in the Cobra Legion. Jason |
03-15-2018, 01:35 AM | #22579 |
Iron Grenadier
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Kansas
Posts: 981
|
Jason: good list but it also points out a key decision by Hasbro in 1986-1987 hat may have gone off the rails to a certain extent.
Every year it seems the designers introduced a new MOS to add to collections for both teams. But with Joes, that MOS was always distilled to a single representive figure and character, while for Cobras, they decided to make the figures generic rather than assigning a specific character to the figure, and imply that there battalions of these figures. What resulted in the end is this massive hierarchy that we are all now trying to make sense of. So a part of me wishes that would have went with more specific charcters for some of this specialties. The Devils Due writers seemed to come back to this idea, and even made them all black to work better visually as a group with the inro of the Plague. Still, there have been a lot of fascinating ideas in this thread that have retroactively organized the Cobra rank. I hope more chime in. Finally, I think this latest subtopic deserves be its own thread, so it can continue without derail. For instance, on Hawk's original filecard, how can Hawk NOT be listed as a qualified expert with an M-14? It seems an older guy like him would have been real proficient with that older standard rifle. |
03-15-2018, 06:29 AM | #22580 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 3,026
|
Quote:
Every year it seems the designers introduced a new MOS to add to collections for both teams. But with Joes, that MOS was always distilled to a single representive figure and character, while for Cobras, they decided to make the figures generic rather than assigning a specific character to the figure, and imply that there battalions of these figures. What resulted in the end is this massive hierarchy that we are all now trying to make sense of. Some of the MOS are practical like an entire group of Cobras who specialize in Communications i.e. Tele-Vipers and then even within this group you have a smaller specialized group who focus on computer warfare i.e. Cyber-Vipers; but I don't know that in the real world it would constitute entirely different uniforms. However there are some MOS that, me personally, would be absorbed into the standard Cobra Infantry (Vipers) like "Rock-Viper" or "Jungle-Viper." But again, I understand Hasbro thinking here that they needed to create a totally different character each year in order to sell a "new" toy and keep kids interested. As a kid, I didn't put near as much thought into this as I do as an adult. Plus I REALLY like the "Blue Shirt" design, and want all or most of my Cobras to have uniforms that are sort of consistent to this design. Which is why I love your custom Cobras so much! Jason |
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