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03-11-2018, 01:17 PM | #22561 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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So do you have a role for the various Vipers Hisshissfangfan in your Joeverse?
Personally I have a hard time explaining the Vipers with weapons specialties as how they fit in to a unit or why they would need separate names and outfits for HEAT, FLAK, SAW, Laser, Data, cyber? But I am sure we could come up with something. Still I can see a role for some of the units who may play specific roles much like US special Ops Forces. It's been awhile since we had one of these but here's some of my equivalents: Tier 1: Elite-Vipers - Delta Force equivalents Para-vipers - DEVGRU (not sure how Viper gets added to the name of a Naval unit. Shoulda been Para-Serpents IMO) Tier 2: Range-Vipers - Green-Berets Alley-Vipers - GSG-9 or similar European Forces -something tells me these guys would be more in that Urban vien, but above say a US SWAT TEAM. Night-Vipers - some Marine Commando units from around the world? Snow Serpents - although not Vipers I think they are probably all pulled from Northern European / Russian Spetznaz units. Eels are SEALs. Tier 3: SAW-VIPERS almost seem like they could be similar to an Alley-Viper, just maybe tier 3. Shock-Vipers -??? Not sure Fast-back Vipers? Desert? Elite Horseman - lower tiered SAS mobility Troop? But then what about Track, motor, Coils, HISS? Maybe just unique to their individual vehicles. Useless ones: well I love em all.
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03-12-2018, 12:46 AM | #22562 |
Cobra Viper
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 243
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Quote:
Very interesting discussion on this. It has me thinking of changing my views on this. While I am still a hardcore "blueshirt" fan (and feel all the Vipers and their various sub-Viper units are too "sci-fi" for my tastes) I may shift to viewing Troopers as the non-experienced and Vipers as former military. I am thinking of the picture in one of the earlier comics that shows Cobra Commander lecturing at a podium and two or three guys with bandana wrapped around their nose and mouth (like the Cobra Troopers) walking by. These would probably be your standard "thugs" who go on to be Cobra Troopers (and no prior military experience).
I want to go back to Eels and Snow Serpents real quick. I feel these are the elite of the Cobra Troopers. You start as Cobra Trooper-->Cobra Diver-->Eel-->Snow Serpent. Does anyone else see them as the elites for this class of unit or do you see the Viper Corps progressing to a Snow Serpent instead? For the Snow Serpent, I agree, but I would say both Blue Shirts and Vipers could feed into the Cobra Divers. Also, how do the Ice Vipers fit in? The file card seems to show them as a branch of the Snow Serpents. They may be the top of that class due to the additional Techno Viper training. |
03-12-2018, 06:42 AM | #22563 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toxo-Zombie Land
Posts: 1,728
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Quote:
In my opinion, I think the difference between Blue Shirts and Vipers is political only. They are both described in the file cards as being the entry level for Cobra. If a man is a mercenary and only wants to sell his services to the highest bidder, he joins Cobra as a Viper. He is told just enough of the tactical plan to do his job. He is only expected to fight. He fights other soldiers on the battlefield. When his enlistment is up, he can choose to walk away. If a man truly believes in Cobra and wants to help them take over the world, he joins as a Blue Shirt. He knows more of the strategic goals of Cobra the higher he climbs. He may fight other soldiers on the battlefield, but he may also be expected to sabotage a power plant or assassinate a police chief. He can't walk away so easily. From either starting point, a man can then work his way up to different specialties. So the difference isn't training, but in your long term commitment to Cobra's cause.
For the Snow Serpent, I agree, but I would say both Blue Shirts and Vipers could feed into the Cobra Divers. Also, how do the Ice Vipers fit in? The file card seems to show them as a branch of the Snow Serpents. They may be the top of that class due to the additional Techno Viper training. As for the Ice-Vipers, I simply saw them as Snow Serpents with a "vehicle driver" specialty. |
03-12-2018, 07:19 AM | #22564 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
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Quote:
So do you have a role for the various Vipers Hisshissfangfan in your Joeverse?
Personally I have a hard time explaining the Vipers with weapons specialties as how they fit in to a unit or why they would need separate names and outfits for HEAT, FLAK, SAW, Laser, Data, cyber? But I am sure we could come up with something. Still I can see a role for some of the units who may play specific roles much like US special Ops Forces. It's been awhile since we had one of these but here's some of my equivalents: Tier 1: Elite-Vipers - Delta Force equivalents Para-vipers - DEVGRU (not sure how Viper gets added to the name of a Naval unit. Shoulda been Para-Serpents IMO) Tier 2: Range-Vipers - Green-Berets Alley-Vipers - GSG-9 or similar European Forces -something tells me these guys would be more in that Urban vien, but above say a US SWAT TEAM. Night-Vipers - some Marine Commando units from around the world? Snow Serpents - although not Vipers I think they are probably all pulled from Northern European / Russian Spetznaz units. Eels are SEALs. Tier 3: SAW-VIPERS almost seem like they could be similar to an Alley-Viper, just maybe tier 3. Shock-Vipers -??? Not sure Fast-back Vipers? Desert? Elite Horseman - lower tiered SAS mobility Troop? But then what about Track, motor, Coils, HISS? Maybe just unique to their individual vehicles. Useless ones: well I love em all. So far I do not have roles for all of them. In my Joe-verse there will not necessarily be separate uniforms and such for these different roles. Cobra will be a PMC so the average "Viper" or "Blueshirt" will have the same equipment as the average private military contractor. I think if anything if one structures a Viper unit similar to a US Army unit they could have the following: 9-man Squad (equivalent to a US Army Stryker Squad)) Viper (Squad leader) Viper (Fireteam Leader) SAW Viper (Automatic Rifleman) Frag-VIper (Grenadier) HEAT-Viper (Anti-Armor Specialist) Viper (Fireteam Leader) SAW Viper (Automatic Rifleman) Frag-VIper (Grenadier) Viper (Squad Designated Marksman) I still haven't figured out how to use other specialty Vipers such as Rock, Jungle, Desert, etc. I would probably make them similar to real world SOF forces like you described. I just don't see the weapon specialty Vipers (Frag, HEAT, SAW, etc) as being more "advanced" over a standard Viper. Also IIRC Alley-Viper's filecard indicates that they are similar to the SAS. I don't know if I go with that or not. SAS is into hostage rescue and special reconnaissance. I don't see the Alley-Vipers as worrying too much about rescuing hostages when they come kicking a door down. Plus they do not seem like they are qualified for special reconnaissance. I see them more as a SWAT team that doesn't worry too much about minimizing collateral damage. On another note the Vipers seem to have their own UDT specialists in the Sub-Viper. Hence why I was leaning towards Eels being the UDT specialists for the Cobra Trooper units. But then you have sub-units of the Eels in the Para-Vipers and Ice-Vipers with the "Viper" designator in them. Last edited by john shaft; 03-12-2018 at 07:51 AM.. |
03-12-2018, 07:32 AM | #22565 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Yeah I would assume SAW, FRAG, HEAT,& MEDI, should be integrated into a standard squad/platoon. Maybe there is some monetary incentives for picking one of those standard squad roles that sets them apart, but I can't come up with one yet.
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-12-2018, 07:54 AM | #22566 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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Ok how about this? HEAT, FRAG, SAW all are feeder positions to the more elite Viper teams. Although one might think:
HEAT might tend to attract the more smarter recruits. SAW attracts the strongest recuits FRAG attracts the fastest. The real brainiacs get pulled out to Tele-vipers. Anyway lets Say SAW is the fast track to Alley-Vipers. I agree that Alley-Vipers are no where near SAS but above a police SWAT team. More like GSG-9, or a US HRT team. Except they are probably robbing a lot more banks and taking hostages then rescuing anyone. Therein lies the attraction for the SAW-VIPER path. Can you imagine a US SWAT TEAM going in and then basically facing another SWAT team? FRAG must feed into Range-Vipers. A lot of running around and grenade launching. Although I kinda think Rock-vipers are a good feeder unit for Range-Vipers. Heat-Viper I guess goes to Fast-back Vipers or maybe WORMS. They are smarter so staying in the Rear with the Gear is always a good call.
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Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome. |
03-12-2018, 07:59 AM | #22567 |
Hisstank.Com General
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Cobra Island & Massachusetts
Posts: 6,378
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I have always just figured that the standard Blue shirt was the bottom of the barrel enlisting point in cobra. Like has been mentioned above^^. This was the role for your standard hoodlum, thug etc basicly the guy with a gun type of role where they were expendable. So if they showed any type of potential they could move up to an officer level and move up from there to a Viper. To enlist as a Viper means you already were a bit more advanced perhaps with ethier some prior military experience, educational or tactical specialty IE Techno, Tele etc. But still being at the bottom of the totem pole. Once a Viper you could move to a different viper squad like Heat, Frag, Flak, Toxo etc with minimal effort perhaps some basic weapons training in said field. If still you proved to be of value you could then move into the more respectable Viper groups Night, Alley, Range and so on. At the very top of the pyramid would be the EEL, Snow Serpents, lampreys, Hydro and various driver or pilot roles after extensive training in those fields. Prove yourself even further and you may just end up with your own code name or be hand selected by Destro for his Iron Grenadier program.
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03-13-2018, 07:20 AM | #22568 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: over here
Posts: 2,092
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Quote:
Ok how about this? HEAT, FRAG, SAW all are feeder positions to the more elite Viper teams. Although one might think:
HEAT might tend to attract the more smarter recruits. SAW attracts the strongest recuits FRAG attracts the fastest. The real brainiacs get pulled out to Tele-vipers. Anyway lets Say SAW is the fast track to Alley-Vipers. I agree that Alley-Vipers are no where near SAS but above a police SWAT team. More like GSG-9, or a US HRT team. Except they are probably robbing a lot more banks and taking hostages then rescuing anyone. Therein lies the attraction for the SAW-VIPER path. Can you imagine a US SWAT TEAM going in and then basically facing another SWAT team? FRAG must feed into Range-Vipers. A lot of running around and grenade launching. Although I kinda think Rock-vipers are a good feeder unit for Range-Vipers. Heat-Viper I guess goes to Fast-back Vipers or maybe WORMS. They are smarter so staying in the Rear with the Gear is always a good call. If Range-Vipers are equivalent to US Army Special Forces I would think any Viper type would be able to at least apply to them. They would probably take any and see who washes out of selection. Also in regards to Air-Vipers and their sub-units (Strato, Astro, etc) I feel these Vipers are thrust straight into the Air Viper units and not starting out as ground soldiers. If a former military pilot with say 14 years experience wants to join Cobra and is very much qualified to pilot one of their planes why would you start them as a ground pounder? That seems a huge waste of their skills and they may even refuse to take the offer to join just for that. Plus Cobra would need to fill those roles fairly quick so why not have an experienced pilot get right to piloting an aircraft? Its much cheaper than trying to train a slew of rookie pilots who have never flown before. The same logic could also be applied to the Heli- and Gyro-Vipers. Of course I am not saying a Viper cannot progress this way but I figure the chances of it happening are very slim. |
03-13-2018, 07:23 AM | #22569 |
Crimson Guard
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toxo-Zombie Land
Posts: 1,728
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Regarding Alley-Vipers, I always saw them as paramount to the Somalian Mogadishu-based militia that the US faced in "Black Hawk Down." Civil wars and trouble spots are what Cobra Commander thrives on according to his very first file card. I could really see the Alley-Vipers causing the JOEs problems in a dusty war-torn city where the government has fallen and Cobra attempts to take control or back some psycho warlord for their own purposes.
I agree that the SAW-Vipers, Tele-Vipers and some other specialty Vipers would excel in a squad formation infantry role. One SAW-Viper per fire team is how I see it, but these guys aren't skulking around jungles or joining LRRP teams. (We have Jungle-Vipers for that.) A Cobra fire-team would be more "fast and furious," hitting a military objective swiftly and withdrawing when the deed is complete. Again, I don't see the Vipers as being much use in the USA. First World countries like Japan and the UK would be more prepared for a terrorist group. Mexico, however, these guys could run amok in Cartel country, especially if they promised the citizens protection. I always liked the HEAT-Vipers, Frag-Vipers and Incinerators as part of a 4-man artillery team - with the WORMs Maggot driver - where they could be transported from place-to-place. They all basically have the same uniform color and specialty: artillery and / or incendiary weapons. Despite the file cards, I was never going to hunt down 3 other WORMs when you have 3 other perfectly capable troops of operating and assisting the Maggot. Plus, these guys will never be the type of infantry who hoof it through the jungles either. They need a vehicle to transport all their gear. Flak-Vipers would also accompany Cobra's other anti-aircraft vehicles (in a Third World setting). Having them run around jungles would be stupid. They're looking for Skystrikers and Dragonflys and need a clear line of sight on the battlefield. Rock-Vipers? How many of these guys can there be? If there's more than one then they are the "mustache corps" of Cobra. He's pretty much the nemesis of Alpine and Hit & Run in my opinion. When he gets up high in the cold, cold mountains, then he can put on his "Range-Viper" outfit. (I still can't figure out why Range-Vipers need oxygen tanks and "brain" helmets. The skull face is a nice touch though.) Last edited by seaneley; 03-13-2018 at 07:35 AM.. |
03-13-2018, 08:08 AM | #22570 |
W.O.R.M.S. Commander
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Back in the US of A! (NoVA)
Posts: 10,649
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I like that idea of the HEAT and Incinerators with the WORMS. I think the FRAG-Vipers, are supposedly deployed en Masse as a unit sowing Havok, because they are using a silent launching system for all those grenades. Maybe swap the Frag with a Flak-Viper.
As for Air-Vipers, yeah having these guys doing infantry training makes no sense. But since we try to make sense of these things, lets say Cobra is using an assortment of military excessed, and open canopy prototype aircraft, these guys get shot down a lot. I mean some of these pods launched don't even have landing gear. Viper training might be essential. Plus I bet there is a lot of down time with nothing to do but train. I would guess these guys sign incentive laden contracts when they sign up. I am starting to view VIPER school like RANGER School, and you get a Viper tab upon completion regardless if you join the Viper REGIMENT.
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